Pacquiao Looking to Take a Page Out of the De La Hoya-Mayweather Playbook
By Juan Angel Zurita (June 15, 2009) - Throughout his career, Oscar De La Hoya was often criticized for conning fighters in to making concessions which would perceivably give him an advantage in a bout.
On the way up from super featherweight (130 lbs) to junior welterweight (140 lbs), he was criticized for making smaller fighters move up to face him in a weight class he was more comfortable at.
At welterweight (147 lbs), he continued the trend by making Julio Cesar Chavez, a smaller past prime great, move up to welterweight for their rematch.
At middleweight, he attempted to gain the upper hand by enticing Bernard Hopkins to put up his middleweight titles while weighing several pounds below the middleweight limit (160 lbs).
In 2007, he convinced Floyd Mayweather Jr., to move up to junior middleweight (154 lbs) for the first time in his career, hoping this tactic would again work out to his benefit.
In his last fight prior to announcing his retirement, he thought he’d pull a fast one by convincing Pacquiao (a 135 lb lightweight at the time) to square off against him in the the welterweight division.
Floyd Mayweather Jr. continued the trend by convincing Ricky Hatton, a prime junior welterweight, to move up to welterweight to challenge him for his welterweight title.
Now officially unretired, for his comeback bout, Mayweather has suckered Juan Manuel Marquez, the past prime featherweight (126 lbs) Mexican great, to move up four weight classes (to the welterweight division) from where he was fighting at just a few years ago.
Now Pacquiao is looking to take a page out of the De La Hoya-Mayweather playbook as Freddie Roach has stated that potential fights against top welterweights like Cotto and Mosley would have to be fought at a catch weight, somewhere between 141-146, preferably 142-144.
De La Hoya and Mayweather have both been heavily criticized for making fights where their opponents agreed to make certain concessions that would potentially put them at a level or two below their best.
If Pacquiao does challenge Cotto, Mosley, or whomever, at a catch weight for a welterweight title, Pacquiao would also be subject to the same criticism.
Pacquiao may have won his first title at flyweight, but from 112-140, he’s proven to be vastly better than the majority of his opponents. At 140, he looked better than ever as he flattened Ricky Hatton in two rounds.
Therefore, is the welterweight division really that much more dangerous?
Why not defeat welterweights at welterweight and go down as an even greater fighter? Who wants an asterisk next to an accomplishment? Who wants detractors to diminish a victory?
Defeating a weight drained welterweight at 142-144 for a welterweight title will diminish the quality of the victory.
Pacquiao’s bitter rival, Juan Manuel Marquez, only moved up several years ago from 126 lbs to 130-135 lbs to chase Pacquiao. After conquering the lightweight division, he’s now moving up two more weight classes to face Mayweather at welterweight.
That’s right. Marquez is moving up again to face off against a more dangerous opponent than any fighter Pacquiao has faced to date.
While Pacquiao is in his prime and has the speed and power to compete at welterweight, Marquez doesn’t. His elite boxing IQ and repertoire can only take him so far.
Many feel Marquez is in way over his head, but one cannot fault him for displaying great courage and tackling such a monumental task considering he’s a natural featherweight. Win or lose he’s earned everyone’s respect, and should he win, there won’t be an asterisk diminishing the accomplishment.
Perhaps Pacquiao should take a page out of the Juan Manuel Marquez playbook.
However, if Freddie keeps getting his way, you can scratch that idea out.
Should Marquez lose to Mayweather whenever that bout finally takes place, you can bet Freddie will definitely advise Pacquiao to stick with the De La Hoya-Mayweather playbook. And with Pacquiao and Mayweather both playing by the same rules, expect negotiations for that bout to be as difficult as the U.N. dealing with North Korean President Kim Jong II.
I agree with you completely. I don’t particularly like it when boxers agree to fight in “catch weights”. However, correct me if I’m wrong but all over the sporting news, Marquez vs Mayweather will be fought on a catch weight, not at welterweight.
Senor Juan….do you want Pacquiao to keep going up in weight till you see him do a chicken dance on the first round. Pacquiao had actually started fighting at 100 LBS and he’s gone up 40% LBS higher at 140 LBS…that is an astonishing 40% increase in weight. I don’t know of any boxer who has gone up from 100 to 140 lbs.
I don’t know what your thinking but I can tell you that common sense dictates that there has to be a limit to how much can Pacquiao can go up in weight.
I still think you are a close relative of Juan Manuel Marquez….will JMM pay you a commission if he gets to fight Pacquiao (just kidding)? Have a good day!
the mayweather playbook is to cherrypick… how can you let pacquiao fight a full fledged welterweight? you should blame mayweather for not fighting cotto at this stage of his career…
Helena, Marquez/Mayweather is scheduled to take place at 147. PBF got his way.
Well it seems like no matter what happens; someone is cherry picking. Isn’t Cotto and Mosley essentially doing the same thing that De La Hoya and Mayweather did if they fight at the welterweight limit? Asking a naturally smaller man, to come up in weight to fight them.
Pacquiao’s ferocity and speed is making a mockery of the weight divisions, but we still don’t know if he can take a real Welterweight’s punching power.
I still remember what happened to Chico when he ran into Clottey at Welterweight; he just got overpowered and Chico was bigger than Pacman.
Still, getting a belt at the 147 division would be mind boggling for Manny. That would be the only reason to do it.
Catch weight at 142 or 144 is fair enough for both pacman and cotto …….and besides pacman is the pound for pound king now and he has all the rights to dictate. Before, he was the one who always give in, but now he has all the reasons to dictate. Marquez on the other had agree mainly because he cannot dictate againts mayweather and he wants to try his luck also. If he will win against mayweather , im sure he will do the same (dictate what weight should he fight) on his next fight.
Common sense dictates that a great big boxer can beat small great boxer over all.That what is stated in many boxing articles before Pacquiao-ODLH was materialized, catchweight or no catchweight that logic should hold water.Mayweather,Cotto,MosleyClottey,etc are big great boxer and Manny is a natural small great boxer.If aside from their natural size advantage(big boxers) and not even a pound of effort to go down to a catchweight,that’s added comfort for them.Let them sweat it out because while they’re going down in weight ,the natural small boxer is going up in weight too therefore ,what could be the problem with it in the end,so far Pacquiao won his great fights.
In my opinion, it’s easy for Marquez to accept and gamble. His what would be upcoming fight (Mayweather) would be his biggest payday of his career. I mean you can see Marquez’ smile from ear to ear in all of the tour for promotional purposes…If you look close enough, you can actually see dollar signs in Marquez’ eyes.
Can anyone fault him for that? I think not.
Pacquiao started out in his career by putting weights in his pockets so he can fight (weighed at 96 to make weight at 106). Marquez started out at what 126-130 or somethin’ like that.
Guess what? Mayweather-Marquez is not even happening. Pacquiao looked good at 140 because he is good, but he is small for 147.
Mr. Author how can you force pacman fighting in 147lbs where freddie is more knowledgeable and more wiser than you. Freddie knows more of his fighter than you. When pacman fighting dela-hoya he only weighs 142 at weigh in and 148 at fight night. When pacman fights ricky hatton he weighs 138 at weigh in and again 148 at fight night. Therefore pacman natural and real weight now is in 140 and he is the pound for pound king and the face of boxing so whoever wants a fight with him will fight at 140. Team pacman is just generous and fair enough to make a fight at catch weight so a great and bigger fighter fighter like mosley, cotto will have an opportunity to fight a smaller pacman.
Pacquiao IS NOT A WELTERWEIGHT, remember that. It just so happens that the big names are in that division. It’s you opinion that Dela Hoya as well as Mayweather may have “conned” their way to catchweights but has it guaranteed them victory (especially Dela Hoya)? Remeber that they are the draw, that’s why the other fighters oblige to their catchweight offer.
are you not going judgemental on pacquiao & co. on their move to have his next fight be done on a catch weight between 141~145 lbs? maybe you had forgotten the principle why weight divisions were created, that is to protect fighters from exagerated mismatch. Furthermore even this weights limits had been put in place all fighters were aiming to gain weights after the official weigh to bring into the ring extra muscle to take advantage of each other. being a fighter and trainer,its is just right for manny and coach freddie to protect manny who’s been fighting from the lower weights as compaired to cotto or mosley fighting for a longer time in the heavier divisions. if you cannot accept the fact that manny by physical attributes would be the underdog if he would be fighting cotto or mosley its up to you, and if you cannot grasp the courage manny to fight bigger opponents please wake up. fighting bigger mens is dangerous to manny can’t you understand that? do not treat this move by pacquiao and company be like oscar and floyd because these two guys had not fought the real dangerous fighters in their divisions.
If I’m not mistaken the PBF-JMM figth will be in the 145 lbs limit not 147 lbs as you have written. Another thing, Pacman only weighed 142 lbs against De la Hoya and 138 lbs against Hatton. Dont you think, Pacman giving away to much advantage if he fights at let say 145 lbs. Pacman will be giving away 7 lbs (based on his weight during tha last fight) while Cotto will just be giving away 2 lbs. And if i’m not mistaken, Cotto only weighed 146 against clottey, so that would mean he will be shedding just 1 pound for the fight with Pacman. Now, who’s giving too much afvantage now?
you fail to realize that mayweather and oscar can do it because they are stars, while marquez cant because you know why. do you think mayweather VS marquez would happen if marquez demands a catchweight?
A year ago, before pacman demolished dela hoya, everyone is in agreement that pacquiao has no business in the welterweight division. That fighting anyone in the welterweight, even a somewhat faded dela hoya, is suicide. The fight was labeled a circus. a clear mismatch.
Now, pacman, asking for a little concession (3 pounds) to fight the best the welterweight can offer, seems like a crime against humanity.
What a difference a year can make.
Catchweight is fine for me, anyway to remind you welterweight is from 141-147lbs, so having a catchweight doesn’t remove the “welterweight” tag. Having this catchweight is balancing the edge of each boxer.
have you heard of the so called “pacman sweepstakes.” All of them are chasing the pacman, and he’s generous enough to all those suitors because they should be the one to catch the natural weight of pacman, but then still he’s still willing to put extra pounds(again) beyond his natural weight right now which is junior welter..
Catch weight! Well here is my take:
Isn’t 141-147 lbs a welterweight division? Being 141 as the minimum and 147 as the maximum welterweight limit.
Does loosing 3-4lbs matter to Cotto during fight night? Imagine if Cottor weighs as much as 160lbs and Pacquiao wieghts 148lbs (the maximum limit he has achieved ever). Dough! Blame Oscar for dehydrating himself!
MP was just fighting at 130 last year. at 145 lbs he has moved up significantly vs.either
cotto or shane(natural WW) . the catch weight of 144-45 should be fair.
prior to his demolition of DLH, everyone was saying MP was crazy to go up to 147.
all of a sudden, just because of his recent successes at higher weight classes,
you suggesting, handicapping MP.
MP is just too good, and you can’t take it!
It is all because of MONEY over fame and pride. An inherent trait as a human species.
It is always been an integral aspect in the sweet science to stir intrigue and enthusiasm for the sport and thus creating more revenue.
Let me get it straight… Mr. Author know it all won’t acknowledge The Pac to be the best unless he wins with a handicap??? Is that right??? Please do answer Mr. Author… I’m kinda confused…
If you are making a case for Juan Manuel Marquez, i wouldn’t be surprised of this writeup. But if you are making a case about “courage” and equating it to Marquez over Pacquiao just because the former fights PBF at welterweight while the Pacquiao camp insist on “catch-weights fights”, i say you are over your head! Pacquiao knows how to keep his advantage or ace rather than give his opponent the undue advantage. How would u begin to fight someone bigger than you at a disadvantage? Pacquiao has defied all odds to be where he is now and he’s not ready to throw it all away for the sake of “courage as you define it in this article of yours”! Marquez, on the other hand, i believe would take every fight or paths same with Pacquiao just to entice Pacquiao to fight him again at a third time. Marquez is in the guise of “courage” just to get the 3rd Pacquiao fight. He will follow his nemesis even in hell i guess. That’s how obsessed he is! I think “obsessed”(to face Pacquiao again) is the word not “courage” as this article says.
my friend, ODLH and PBF are fighting much lighter opponent than them, pacquiao is fighting opponents bigger than him. so whats with the comparison? if he choose to fight vic darchinian on 140 lbs. you can compare pacman with those two guys. He is not suppose to fight bigger guys but he is. you should admire him.
Yes I don’t want people to ever have to explain pacquiao’s victories. I want them to be convincing as the Hatton ordeal. No one wants to ever have to explain “oh Pacquiao won that because Cotto or Mosley had to go down to 142 and were weight drained.” Freddy, if he wants Manny to fight welterweights should not be demanding for concessions. They are invading the Welterweight division for lack of quality opponents at jr. welter, and most importantly lack of wealth-generating fights therein. Let them fight welterweights with no catchweight crap included in the contract. Let these fights be legitimately remembered win or lose for Pacquiao. I can live with a Pacquiao loss at welterweight. He has nothing more to prove at this point, Everything else is a topping of cherries on his hall of famer cake.
PBF and Delahoya used catch weight to bully smaller men; Pacman used catch weight to give bigger men the chance to bully him.
PBF and Delahoya moved up or down to a max of one weight class to bully less threatening and underdog opponents. Pacman moved from 130 to 135 to 140 to 147lbs fighting dangerous and highly rated opponents.
Pacman is using the page of PBF and Delahoya not in his favor but for his opponents to have the chance to “bully” him in the ring. Remember what Hatton said? He said “I’m bigger and Stronger fighter than Pacman”. Remember what Delahoya said? He said “There must be a knockout on this fight”.
Let Mosley, Cotto and Mayweather have a taste of Pacman. He is “small, one dimensional and not a strong puncher”. This was what Delahoya reasoned out why he was not KO’d by Pacman in their fight.
It is nice to know that the writer is very much aware that the U.N. is having difficulty with the Nokor head. But I guess people should know why he ended his piece in a manner a Nokor’s missile would travel all the way to the U.S.
Other boxers do not deserve to be mentioned in this particular article of yours, Mr. Zurrita. Marquez is definitely your man. He is the legit p4p king for you. He conducts himself well inside and outside the ring and misunderstood as disrespectful to Manny when he told him in his face that he knows he beat the hell out of him in their last fight. Boxing sucks, for JMM clearly won both fights, and i am sure that that is your belief.
Your Marquez is a great boxer and i do not get it why he should waste his time chasing Manny. You know that JMM is the greatest of all boxers and rare is the breed that steps up in weight and fight with no catch weight. Marquez proved his greatness by challenging the most dangerous fighter in the planet in Mayweather. Now that the fight is temporarily cancelled ( Money May may have realized he does not stand a chance against the legit p4p king Marquez ), JMM, i guess should fight in the 154 category and ( I am sure he would without a catch weight unlike what lesser fighters do ) now that a legit 147 and the most dangerous boxer at that is trying to figure out how to extricate himself from being exposed by the great JMM.
If its PBF doing it,its cherrypicking,but if its Pacman its”to level the playing field.