Zarate vs Pintor

Discussion in 'Boxing News and Discussion' started by blackrican23, Mar 30, 2004.

  1. blackrican23

    blackrican23 Resident B-Boy

    I've been watching Zarate fights the last few days, one I havent seen is his loss to Pintor. Could anyone give me some insight into this fight. was it a robbery? Is this fight worth adding to my collection

    thanxs to anyone who responds
     
  2. Tam-Tam

    Tam-Tam Member

    Pretty decent fight, not great though. I can't find a way to score it close enough to even fathom a draw for Pintor though. So, I have to say robbery.

    Still, Carlos was clearly not at his best...he let a few rounds go by without doing anything.
     
  3. Joonie73

    Joonie73 Guest

    It's considered 1 of the worst decisions in boxing history. Among high profile fights, I'd have to agree.
     
  4. I disagree with both Joonie and Tam, from whom I've learned much about the sport -- particularly boxing outside of Latin America. Yet, I believe they slight Lupe's effort in this fight. To be sure, he left the ring looking like a gargoyle and with a profusely bleeding mouth, but, to me, he earned enough points to edge Carlos in a close, rather unispiring fight.

    In that sense, I agree with Tam, as it wasn't a great fight. These men are two of the greatest fighters Mexico ever produced, fighters known for always coming forward. One was among the greatest punchers in history, the other a bruising, face-forward slugger known for never backing down from anyone. And yet the fight was rather dull.

    It was a curious outcome given who the combatants were, but not difficult to explain. Carlos just didn't fight his normal fight. He seemed tentative (ill or not, he had just come off being prison-raped by Gomez), and, being a stablemate of Pintor, he knew that Pintor would give him a tough, grueling fight. So he decided to box Lupe. BOX!!!

    Frankly, I think he stunk at it, and deserves all the blame for making it somewhat of a boring fight. Pintor pressed the fight all night, and, though he was dropped in the fourth, I believe Carlos was hurt just as badly in the tenth and fourteenth rounds -- though, to his credit, he always managed to keep his feet. In the end, however, he did what Lupe's opponent's always seemed to do and faded like a cheap shirt down the stretch.

    I don't have my scoring for the fight at the moment but am certainly willing to post it on a round-by-round basis if anyone requests this.

    I hope this helps, or, at the very least, didn't put you to sleep. [​IMG]


    Gancho
     
  5. Tam-Tam

    Tam-Tam Member

    Wow, you scored it for Pintor?

    I know you said you don't have your scoring available, but do you know how many points you had him in front at the end?

    I also don't think Carlos "stunk" at boxing as such, but he would certainly have been better served to just take it to Lupe and pit his best against Pintor's best. In that sort of a war, I think Carlos takes Lupe out before the final bell.

    He seemed to lack the aggression that he had earlier in his career, and perhaps it was age that did it, or yes, perhaps he showed alot more respect for Pintor then maybe he should have.
     
  6. Tam,

    Give me a day or so and I'll watch the fight again to score it. I can tell you that I had Pintor up by a point (or even two), but I'd like to give you a round-by-round assessment.

    Gancho
     
  7. Joonie73

    Joonie73 Guest

    Gancho, I'd like to see your scorecard. While I respect you a great deal, you realize that you are emphatically on the minority here, right? In fact, I have not come across a single person who thought Pintor actually won. And I usually score fights for the aggressive fighter when all things are equal.

     
  8. I'm on it, Joonie. And, by the way, I'm accustomed to being a minority, so it sure as heck doesn't bother me anymore. ;)
     
  9. Joonie,

    One other thing: I realize that most people believe Zarate won this fight. Unlike you, however, I have come across some people -- albeit not too many -- who scored the fight for Pintor.

    From them and on my own, I've picked up on several reasons that led the uproar over this decision. For one thing, there was, of course, the infamous incident whereby the one judge who had it for Zarate attempted to correct his 5-point must scoring card by simply multiplying the points by two -- leading to a lopsided score for Zarate. In addition, the rumor that Cuyo Hernandez, who managed both fighters, was aware of Carlos's intention of replacing him with his brother and thus paid off the judges to give it to Pintor persists to this very day. Finally, I believe that Zarate was so renonwned for his power -- and Pintor so obscure a fighter at that point -- that most people simply assumed that, though the punch count was about equal, the fight had to go to the champion because his punches caused more damage. Pintor's appearance after the fight must've validated this opinion for them. (Although Pintor would no doubt argue, as I do, that Zarate's constant elbowing had something to do with that, as well.)

    In any case, here's my scorecard:

    Pintor-Zarate
    Rd 1-- 10-9
    Rd 2-- 10-9
    (Crowd boos inactivity; Pintor, as he will throughout the fight, presses the fight and, in these rds, lands more jabs)
    Rd 3-- 9-10
    (Zarate picks up the pace and lands more)
    Rd 4-- 8-10
    (Pintor suffers a flash knockdown; unfortunately for Zarate, it comes with only about ten seconds left in the rd)
    Rd 5-- 9-10
    Rd 6-- 10-9
    (Turning point; Carlos allows Lupe back in the fight)
    Rd 7-- 9-10
    Rd 8-- 10-10 Even
    Rd 9-- 10-9
    Rd 10-- 10-9
    (Pintor controls the round and then lands two consecutive left hooks that hurt Zarate badly; the last thirty seconds are all Pintor as Zarate tries to cover up and hold on)
    Rd 11-- 10-9
    (A jabfest, with Pintor snapping Zarate's head back with almost all of his; between rds 11 and 12, you can hear fans in the crowd yelling at Mills Lane to watch Zarate's elbows)
    Rd 12-- 9-10
    (Zarate rallies back in this rd and lands a great left hook)
    Rd 13-- 9-10
    (Zarate wins this one, as Lupe obviously took this rd off; he couldn't have thrown more than ten punches in this rd)
    Rd 14-- 10-9
    (Lupe starts the rd fast and lands a right hand that almost drops Zarate; only Carlos's wide-legged fencing stance keeps him up)
    Rd 15-- 10-9
    (Zarate, perhaps thinking he had the fight won, takes the rd off and allows Pintor to land more)
    Totals
    143-142
     
  10. Tam,

    I didn't mean to say that Carlos "stunk" at boxing in general, but that he stunk up the joint in this particular fight. I'm sorry for not making that clear.

    Gancho
     

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