Williams vs. Lara SPOILER

Discussion in 'Boxing News and Discussion' started by BKING, Jul 9, 2011.

  1. Michael Matos

    Michael Matos Member

    After further review I think a lot of people are upset about the decision because that is where HBO took you. As I pointed out in my first post on the subject Williams corner never mentioned he was falling behind on points until Max told them after the ninth round at which time Harold had Williams down 7-2 which I thought was real generous. Secondly it's kinda difficult for a judge to buy into the fact that a smaller man is outpointing the bigger man especially when the bigger man is the much busier of the two. The other thing that has me thinking is that every indicator showed it was a close fight. PunchStat numbers show that Lara outlanded Williams in only 6 or the 12 rounds, Williams outlanded him in 4 of them and in the other 2 they landed the same amount. Ringo saw it 114-114, the numbers say it was a close fight, the judges saw a close fight. I'll lean to that side as opposed to the 11-1's,10-2's and HBO's 9-3 side.
     
  2. Chaos

    Chaos Member

    I totally forgot about that, you are right and its not the 1st time HBO speaks with the trainer in between rounds only this time it seemed Max was throwing a bone to Will's trainer about his fighter being behind

    What do you think about commentators speaking with the trainers in between rounds?

    Does is it influence the trainer by giving him a bird's eye view on how the fight is going and therefore giving his fighter an insight on his opponent which was the case last night IMO, or does in not?
     
  3. Rabid Kimba

    Rabid Kimba Member

    Anybody in here laughed out loud Roy Jones was urging Williams to retire during the fight? He did ease up on that after the fight...but heck...Roy Jones should be the last person in the world to be saying shit like that...urging a fighter to give it up for being brutalized.

    How about you, Roy?

    :slaphead: :lol:
     
  4. Rebel

    Rebel Admin

    I don't care how active Williams was. Many of his punches were blocked and they didn't have the same effect as Lara's. In my eyes, this was a clear win for Lara. He landed good clean head-body shots quite often and demonstrated the better ring generalship.
     
  5. It was a load of crap. A draw maybe, no fucking way a win for Williams.
     
  6. Jack1000

    Jack1000 Boxing Fanatic

    Holy Shit!

    The worst decision since Casey Anthony's acquittal in her murder trail! This was scandalous here. I did actually have it closer than HBO because I knew that Williams was gonna get the benefit of the doubt on close rounds 4-4 after 8. But there is no way in hell you could give Williams ANY rounds after round 8. Lara took 9-12 very big and convincingly for a 116-112 Lara score, and THAT is the kindest you can be to Paul in this fight. Punisher got punished badly from 9-12. Very inexperienced judges were also used like Harold said. And New Jersey has some good judges. Well, actually, Al Bennett has a good track record so I can't explain why he would not give Laura the fight.

    They went for Delahoya's fighter in Williams all the way down the line. Relative no-names and journeymen always seem to never get justice on these decisions.

    Jack
     
  7. Jack1000

    Jack1000 Boxing Fanatic

    What do you see at ringside that HBO and the viewers at home don't see that would result in watching two different fights like that? I saw a terrible call. Not quite as one-sided as HBO had. I remember people at home had Mosley-Delahoya II like 115-113 for Delahoya, and people at ringside had it like 115-113 for Mosley. But this fight to me was not close from 9-12. The best I gave Paul is four rounds, as indicated above.

    Jack
     
  8. mikE

    mikE Member

    I suspect that judge experience is nothing more than a red herring. A good judge is a good judge and a bad judge is a bad judge and all judges have questionable nights.

    To my knowledge, there really is no one judging the judges in a meaningful way. Don't blame experience, though. I can take a 7th grader and tell him or her what to look for and have a good judge in about 20 minutes. Do you guys really think that you are a better judge now than when you first started watching boxing? I don't.
     
  9. mikE

    mikE Member

    I haven't noticed any Cuban fade, either. Roy is very astute, but I haven't seen that trait (fading) from great amateur fighters anymore than I have seen it from everyone else and I would say it's less common with a great amateur. It takes great stamina to win am tournaments. You are fighting all the time and you can't let the previous fight affect your performance in the next fight. Whatever learning curve is going on, the great amateur starts out with a big lead.

    Oh, and a judge has to start out somewhere. Lara vs Williams is a perfect fight to have a judge get a meaningful fight. No title on the line, but it's important.

    And finally, for now, the one judge got criticized for getting a fight "wrong"...because he had one guy winning by a point (i think) and it was the 'wrong' guy he had winning. Well, that means the guy probably only messed up one round (if any). A judge who is off by a round is off by a round and it doesn't matter if he has the right guy winning. Sure, it's human nature to care more about the 'mistake' that changes the outcome, but it's really no worse or better when it comes to judging a judge IF you are doing things correctly and fairly.
     
  10. Michael Matos

    Michael Matos Member

    Nah. Not even close. you opine that Williams never won a round after round 8. Well in rounds 9 & 10 Lara and Williams landed exactly the same amount of punches, in fact in round 10 Williams threw over 100 punches, in round 9 Lara threw less than 30 punches his lowest round output of the fight. so in two of those four rounds that Williams never won after round 8, in one of them Williams threw more punches than any other round in the fight and in another Lara threw less punches than any other round in the fight.. So it becomes entirely conceivable doesn't it Jack that those two rounds went to Williams in the judges eyes? So 4-4 after 8 becomes 6-6 after 12 quite easily, very easily,. but yet this fight is the worst decision in the last 5 days?
     
  11. Joe King

    Joe King Member

    Agreed but still, if a draw is possible, that means it was a much closer fight than people are making it out to be.
     
  12. Ringside

    Ringside Retiree

    exactly right as usual Mike..lol..Actually Lara was running a bit at the end and did not even try to close the show. I have Williams with 9, 10 and 12. In fact even in 11 Lara was pot shotting and taking off.I gave it to him mostly on the beases of three solid head shots.Lara's "acurrate pin point shots" sounded and looked brutal but emotion aside were so so incredible as some imply that a "shot " Williams was never in trouble , put down, and at best he knee buckled slightly in round 7 I believe. On the other hand Williams always answered these devisitating hard incoming blows with moving foward and throwing back..Again no knockdown, nothing....
    it was a close fight. Ringo
     
  13. Joe King

    Joe King Member

    Maybe he wasn't listening to the commentary. That always helps. HBO was going overboard with each punch Lara landed, like I said due to the fact that Paul was starched by a similar punch. He took these shots well and kept fighting and deserves credit.

    None of the above means I think he won the fight but he wasn't blown out either.
     
  14. Ringside

    Ringside Retiree

    Just to say Max etc. were watching a monitor in front of me replaying the rounds just as they ended and throwing back and forth ideas..then by the next round they were pre disposed..lots of give and take by commentators at fights, not only them, showtime, ESPN etc. does it too...very organized...teleprompters, etc. Not as spontaneous as one thinks..don't get me wrong they have honest opinions but there is give and take between rounds...I've seen this over and over....Ringo

    check out the cool pics www.boxingladiators.com
     
  15. Ringside

    Ringside Retiree

    exactly...... Ringo
     
  16. Valdosta

    Valdosta Boxing Fanatics Moderator

    Wow, they actually held the judges accountable and suspended there asses. Good.
     
  17. Rabid Kimba

    Rabid Kimba Member

  18. mikE

    mikE Member

    Think about how wrong you are about suspending the judge who had it a draw.
    There are a lot of people who thought the fight was close. Punchstats indicate a pretty close fight.
    We haven't seen the fight from the view of the judges.

    And you support indefinitely suspending a judge who had that even? Or even Lara by a point?

    I support removing Aaron Davis from the New Jersey Commission indefinitely. He overreacted and overreacted in a moronic way, imo.
    We all heard the quote on FNF...no corruption this, not wrongdoing that, etc...If you are going to indefinitely suspend a judge who had a bad card like this then you better get ready to remove judges constantly.

    Williams threw about twice as much and landed about 20 less over the entire fight.

    There are SO many worse decisions and cards out there it's not even close, imo.
     
  19. Michael Matos

    Michael Matos Member

    Thank you. Two things first of all as you indicated they may have opened Pandora's Box and secondly it speaks directly to the influence that HBO had on this. I continue to maintain that HBO to a certain extent manufactured the controversy, from telling Williams corner they had him way behind on points and when the Williams corner bought it up they used as proof that they were right. Go back and listen to the drivel. To take Mr. Davis at face value then the action begs one question Why were the judges suspended? To appease......who? A restless public, a commentary team, yourself, the Teddy Atlas's of the world?
     
  20. Valdosta

    Valdosta Boxing Fanatics Moderator

    Fights are scored on a round by round basis I really don't care about punchstats. Lara easily landed the cleaner and more effective shots, snapping Williams head all over the place. I do agree that there's plenty of other bad decisions that don't get the same type of response from the commissions, although they should. I have no issues with the suspensions though all 3 cards sucked.
     

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