Why Pongsaklek Wonjongkam is severely overrated

Discussion in 'Boxing News and Discussion' started by Rebel, May 10, 2011.

  1. Rebel

    Rebel Admin

    Pongsaklek Wonjongkam is currently the Ring Magazine's #5 p4per. However, in my view, he doesn't deserve to be rated so highly.

    Pong has hid in Asia forever. His biggest victories to date are Naito, Kameda, and Miranda. Meanwhile he never faced Arce, Alvarez, Parra, Viloria, Darchinyan, Donaire, Narvaez, the other top flyweights that were around during his WBC flyweight title reign(s).

    You know your opposition is questionable when as a lighter weight champion you've managed to avoid facing the best flyweights of your time and your biggest victory to date over a Mexican fighter, a group that normally dominates the lower weight classes, came against Julio Cesar Miranda, a fighter who has never been considered a top Mexican fighter.

    While on paper, his record may look impressive, a closer look indicates otherwise.

    1. Pong is notorious for padding. He fights often but many of those fights are against complete trash or fighters making their pro debuts. How many commissions in the USA would sanction bouts between an experienced champion and a total newb? How would you feel if Manny Pacquiao began facing off against fighters with 0-0 boxing records?

    2. While his longevity is impressive, one can argue that he's lasted this long because he avoided the best flyweights of his time and he never moved up in weight like most of the aforementioned former flyweights.

    If fans gave Roy Jones Jr. a hard time for never facing Dariusz, they should give Pong relentless hell for never facing the best flyweights of his time. Simply put, Pong has proven to be a very good tiltlist, but has never proven to be a great champion.

    In closing, I'd like to state that I believe fighters like Arce, Darchinyan, and Donaire should all be rated highter because of their desire to challenge themselves in higher weight divisons. Can you imagine the gaudy flyweight achievements they'd have had they chosen to remain at flyweight while feasting on a steady diet of cans/newbs?

    What's your take on Pong?
     
  2. TLC

    TLC Member

    Fights in the wrong era.

    If he had fought in the 20s, 30s or 40s, he'd be regarded as one of the best of all time.

    In 2011, padding is looked down upon.

    In 2011, wannabe boxing historians look back at guys like Sandy Saddler and say "Wow, this guy had an amazing record! Look at all the guys he beat, he'd destroy your Marquez's, Pacquiao's etc" ignoring that half the guy's wins are again Shoe Shining Joe Brown and the likes with a record of 20-26.
     
  3. There's a difference. Padding is ok as long as you're still trying to fight the best. Rebels point I think was that he hasn't fought the best. So, regardless of what era he was in, he hasn't fought the best in his division or the divisions around him.
     
  4. TysonFan

    TysonFan Sensei

    I get your point's. The padding part. I guess that's one explanation for the odd matchmaking that goes on in the lower weight divisions.
     
  5. Valdosta

    Valdosta Boxing Fanatics Moderator

    He's overrated because he holds wins over the WBA and WBC champions in the weight division above him,beat the WBA champion 2 weight classes above him and beat Edgar Sosa who hadn't lost a clean fight in several years.
     
  6. Rabid Kimba

    Rabid Kimba Member

    Who the flying fuck is this Pong Pinaling Long Pongy Wong Dong dude...or whatever the fuck his name is...lol.
     
  7. mex fighter

    mex fighter Meqcksykin

    haha!

    when i saw that kimba had the last post in this thread, i was going to come in and say, "fuck you kimba, what the hell do you know about pongasjkf wongasikfjfashfjjkhfahjf".

    you did me proud, mijo!
     
  8. Rebel

    Rebel Admin

    Wrong. He's overrated because many publications rate him highly despite the fact that he never fought the best flyweights of his time (Arce, Donaire, Viloria, Darchinyan, and Narvaez). He's also overrated because 2/3 of his wins are padded victories against total no-hopers. These are key reasons why he's had great longevity.

    He's a very good fighter, but an overrated one, without question.
     
  9. Valdosta

    Valdosta Boxing Fanatics Moderator

    Yeah he's real overrated, that's why people are coming into this thread saying who the hell is that. LOL. Pong has fought all kinds of current and past champions, in Sosa he just beat someone better than 1 of the fighters you just mentioned.
     
  10. Rebel

    Rebel Admin

    Styles make fights. Viloria lost to Sosa but beat Solis who beat Sosa. The point is Pong hasn't fought the best flyweights around him during his reign(s).
     
  11. Valdosta

    Valdosta Boxing Fanatics Moderator

    The point is he has fought a ton of current and past champions. None of those little guys fight everyone, it just doesn't happen. Oh and as for your comments about styles, get real. Sosa fought Solis 8 years ago, he beat Viloria a lot more recently than that. Lets list the current and past champs Pong has beaten....

    1. Malcolm Tunacao to win the title

    2. Luis Lazarte destroyed him in 2 rounds

    3. Daisuke Naito went 2-1-1 against him should have been 3-1 the 4th fight was a robbery

    4. Gilberto Keb Baas

    5. Tomonodu Shimizu-Pong dominated this guy who just beat Cazares

    6. Julio Miranda

    7. Koki Kameda who was a good sized favorite to beat Pong

    8. Suriyan Sor Rungvisai

    9. Edgar Sosa who hadn't lost a fight cleanly in about 8 years

    So, while Pong has fought lots of garbage he's also fought a lot of current and past world champions. MUCH more than most of those guys around those weight classes.
     
  12. Rebel

    Rebel Admin

    True. In many cases a fighter can't fight everyone, but when he's failed to face the best flyweights around during his reigns, there's something more to it IMO.
     
  13. Valdosta

    Valdosta Boxing Fanatics Moderator

    Do what I just did with Narvaez, you won't get past 5. Something more to it? Yeah there's something more to it he gets paid well when he fights in Japan and just keeps busy in non title fights (usually), in Thailand. It's not like all of his fights are in his backyard. That and there's no demand for him over here.
     
  14. Rebel

    Rebel Admin

    Most of his fights were still in Asia and he never fought the best fighters around his weight class. Those are facts no matter how you try to slice things.
     
  15. Valdosta

    Valdosta Boxing Fanatics Moderator

    No, those aren't facts, that's your opinion. Contrary to your supposed facts he's fought several guys who became champions after fighting him. Considering that fact I think it's safe to say he has beaten some of the best. So what if his fights are in Asia, that hasn't efected the outcome of any of his fights (except Japan in a bad way).
     
  16. Rebel

    Rebel Admin

    He fought several guys who became titlists afterwards. Big deal. Must I remind you there's 4 major titles in each weight class?

    Accept the facts.
     
  17. Valdosta

    Valdosta Boxing Fanatics Moderator

    The facts are what I posted, 90% of what you posted is nothing more than opinion. Without bothering to look it up I would bet the only guy you listed who has beaten more current or former champions is Arce. If any of the others have it's close. It's funny that it's so hard for you to give the guy credit. Go take a look at somewhere with a bit more informed opinions (boxrec), and a lot of people regard him higher than you do for the reasons I have mentioned in this thread. You look at boxing very narrow minded sometimes.
     
  18. Rebel

    Rebel Admin

    I said he was a very good titlist, just not a great fighter IMO. What more do you want?

    Narrow-minded are those that overrate the very good titlist who's done a great job of avoiding the best fighters in and around his weight class throught his career while padding the heck out of his record. Edgar Sosa isn't even one of the top 20 Mexican fighters, and you want me to somehow pretend he just defeated Miguel Canto?

    I understand you like the guy because he's made you some good money, but you need to comeback to reality.
     
  19. Valdosta

    Valdosta Boxing Fanatics Moderator

    More opinions but you just have nothing to really back what you say. I want to know how a guy is overrated when hardly anyone knows who he is? Because ring ranks him high PFP? Well he should be he's been good a long ass time. Pong hasn't avoided anyone. He's fought out of his country and fought a shitload of former and current champions. As for Sosa, he's a top guy at 112, I could care less where he ranks on your little imaginary PFP Mexican list.
     
  20. Rebel

    Rebel Admin

    I've provided facts and you've chosen to ignore them. He hasn't fought the best fighters in and around his weight class. Yes, he's fought a slew of former/current titlists, but the significance of that is diminished when one considers the dilution of titles. Simply make a list of the top flyweights around during his reigns and you'll see that he didn't face any those fighters.
     

Share This Page