Why is Jones Jr. the greatest of all time?

Discussion in 'Boxing News and Discussion' started by Aymaco, Sep 8, 2002.

  1. The Hitman

    The Hitman Hitman

    ONe more thing to reed:

    no need to strictly limit it to extremes..... YOU said that the talent pool increases as weight increases so the heavyweight statement is as accurate as yours was. Let's not go so far..... how about 190? 175? 168? 160? oh yea 175 is a supremely talented division of course (lol)..... those are ALL some of the lesser divisions in boxing. skip 154 and we are BACK to another brutally weak div in 147.

    And i would disagree about the P4P power issue.... Jorge Arce, Lopez, Alvarez are all very hard punchers. Watch arce's last fight on univision v ramon hurtado.... phew! Plenty of bangers at the lower weights. And that is one big problem i have with top 10 lists..... not enough respect to the lower fighters- many of which are not american or shown in america which is the true reason why they do not get that respect IMO.

    Hitman
     
  2. Valdosta

    Valdosta Boxing Fanatics Moderator

    <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Hitman:
    ONe more thing to reed:

    no need to strictly limit it to extremes..... YOU said that the talent pool increases as weight increases so the heavyweight statement is as accurate as yours was. Let's not go so far..... how about 190? 175? 168? 160? oh yea 175 is a supremely talented division of course (lol)..... those are ALL some of the lesser divisions in boxing. skip 154 and we are BACK to another brutally weak div in 147.

    And i would disagree about the P4P power issue.... Jorge Arce, Lopez, Alvarez are all very hard punchers. Watch arce's last fight on univision v ramon hurtado.... phew! Plenty of bangers at the lower weights. And that is one big problem i have with top 10 lists..... not enough respect to the lower fighters- many of which are not american or shown in america which is the true reason why they do not get that respect IMO.

    Hitman
    <hr></blockquote>

    For puncher's in the lower weight classes don't foget Alexander Munoz. I dare REED or anyone else to find a champion with a higher KO % :D and he weighs a measely 115 pounds. Pongsaklak can punch pretty well also. Add that to the guys you already mentioned and that's a good list and all of them weigh 115 or less.
     
  3. TIP

    TIP Member

    <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Hitman:



    And yes Rosendo Alvarez is better than anyone Jones beat when he beat them. Certainly better than Hill. Alvarez giving Lopez a tough fight only reflects why it is always so important to always and continuously seek out and fight the top guys in your division- almost EVERYONE was sure Lopez was head and shoulders above Alvarez..... much like they think Jones is much better than DM now. Same with Mosley and Forrest.

    Hitman
    <hr></blockquote>


    You hit the nail on the head Hitman. No one can deny that Roy Jones is a top notch fighter with a lot of talent. He has proven that. The point though is he needs to fight the other top guy at 175. Untill he does one can only speculate on the outcome. Ray Leonard looked like the best fighter ever in his first 25 fights. He then faced Benetiz and people then realized there were other fighters in his class and that could test him. Ray fought Dave Green next and looked like a world beater again. Then came Duran in Montreal. Ray showed the real fighter he was in fights with Duran, Hearns and Hagler. Those guys were at the very top of their divisions and the best possible competition at the time. Who has been the best possible opponent or challenge Roy has had at 175. The answer is simple everyone including Roy knows who the fighter is. Oscar, Shane, Ricardo, Lennox, Evander, Tito, Fernando and Floyd Jr. all stepped to the plate and met their top opponent, some more than once. Why couldn't the fighter many feel is the best do it too? TIP
     
  4. Michael Matos

    Michael Matos Member

    <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Diesel:


    True, but the Heavys of the past were not as big and didn't hit as hard. What was Marciano? 186 correct? He would be only a crusier weight. today.
    <hr></blockquote>

    In his seven title fights Marciano's weight ranged from 184 to 189. He was outweighed by all his championship opponents except two that being Roland La Starza who weighed in at 184 3/4 to Marciano's 185, and Ezzard Charles in their first fight 185 to Marciano's 187.
     
  5. Michael Matos

    Michael Matos Member

    <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by REED:


    Well,Considering that Roy is the Most CONSISTENTLY Dominant Fighter EVER,REED Would have 2 Say,"So Far So Good"...

    Beginning a Career as a Middle & Being a Middle CHAMPION,R 2 Different Things...

    R U Gonna Sit Here & Act as if Roy BEATING louise,ISN'T a Significant Achievement???...How Many Middlweight CHAMPIONS have Won a Title @ Heavy???...

    REED [​IMG]
    <hr></blockquote>

    Bob Fitzsimmons.
     
  6. <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Hitman:


    PLease dont ever go there with the alcohol thing.... as always you prefer ASSUMING to facts. You have zero idea how much i had to drink, and you have zero idea how much i can drink :D (All British and Irish roots baby). Not that i figured any more from you.

    And yes Rosendo Alvarez is better than anyone Jones beat when he beat them. Certainly better than Hill. Alvarez giving Lopez a tough fight only reflects why it is always so important to always and continuously seek out and fight the top guys in your division- almost EVERYONE was sure Lopez was head and shoulders above Alvarez..... much like they think Jones is much better than DM now. Same with Mosley and Forrest.

    And I'll just have to disagree about the rematch, Lopez did in fact TRULY beat Alvarez IMO.

    As for the comments that enraged me so...... the post had my post in quotes..... it was coming right after i had expressed feelings that i don't respect boxing fans who disrespect lower weight class fighters. Your comments you very much directed at me and you know it. Or, I suppose it was (implied) to be directed at VAL since all your diaperweight BS is really only an inside joke with him right? lol.

    Lots of wasted space in your post about the "respect issue" i stated what you said in one sentence. Knew it was coming.

    I didnt insult you either...... all i did was state facts.

    Hitman
    <hr></blockquote>

    :rolleyes:

    U're LOSING REED,HITMAN...U're RANTING About NON Issues...

    Calling REED a Liar,But NOT Backing It Up...Saying REED Makes Assumptions,But NOT Backing it Up...

    U're CRYING About "Respect" :rolleyes: ...& Then U Can't Even OWN Up 2 the Fact that U've Insulted REED...

    Fine,No Harm...Just Stick 2 BOXING,N the Future,w/REED,OK???...

    Not Unless U're Gonna ACTUALLY BACK UP your Assertions...

    There is NO Way N Hell that Rosendo Alvarez's Diaperweight A$$ is BETTER Than James Toney(When Roy Fought Him)or Bernard Hopkins(When Roy Fought Him...

    Hill???...No...REED Doesn't Know that Alvarez is Even Better than Reggie Johnson...Probably Not Even Montell Griffin...

    Just Cause he Gave ya Boy his 2 Toughest Fights,Doesn't Make him ALL WORLD...

    When was Alvarez Ranked NO WORSE than 2nd,N the World,LB 4 LB???...Didn't Think So...

    Lopez was Soooo N Favor of "Seeking the Best Opposition" that he FAILED 2 Fight Mark Johnson,Johnny Tapia & Danny Romero,Back when Those Match Ups were Feasible...

    ANY 1 that Attempts 2 Place Ricardo Lopez OVER Roy Jones is HIGHLIGHTING Their Own Hypocrisy...Lopez DOES NOT Have a Better Resume than Jones,DOES NOT Have as Much Talent as Jones & Lopez HAS NOT Accomplished More than Jones...

    Lopez's Blemish on his Record is MORE Controversial than Jones' & his Blemish was NOT Rectified N the UTTERLY Convincing Manner that Jones' Was...

    Quite Simply,Weighing a Buck & Change,Standing 5 Ft,NOTHING Inches,Ricardo Lopez DOESN'T Measure Up...

    REED [​IMG]
     
  7. <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Hitman:
    ONe more thing to reed:

    no need to strictly limit it to extremes..... YOU said that the talent pool increases as weight increases so the heavyweight statement is as accurate as yours was. Let's not go so far..... how about 190? 175? 168? 160? oh yea 175 is a supremely talented division of course (lol)..... those are ALL some of the lesser divisions in boxing. skip 154 and we are BACK to another brutally weak div in 147.

    And i would disagree about the P4P power issue.... Jorge Arce, Lopez, Alvarez are all very hard punchers. Watch arce's last fight on univision v ramon hurtado.... phew! Plenty of bangers at the lower weights. And that is one big problem i have with top 10 lists..... not enough respect to the lower fighters- many of which are not american or shown in america which is the true reason why they do not get that respect IMO.

    Hitman
    <hr></blockquote>

    Actually,if Memory Serves,BJ Made that Statement...NOT REED...

    Looking @ the Weight Classes,Right Now(2 Day)Doesn't PROVE ANYTHING...

    This is 1 Period of Time Where the Diaperweights May B Flourishing...EVERYBODY Has their Moments...It's CERTAINLY NOT a Trend...

    Throughout HISTORY,Higher Weights have Had BETTER Fighters...This ISN'T Even Debateable...

    w/the Influx of the 2000 Olympians Developing Prospects,things Will Revert 2 NORM...

    Thank God 4 LB 4 LB Lists...But I Guess They ALSO Have Some Sort of American Bias???...

    But That CAN'T B True...Tito,Kostya,Barrera,Morales,Hamed,Lennox...They've ALL Been Perennial LB 4 LB Entrants,Thru the Last Couple Years...

    Hell,Even Ricardo Lopez...

    Even N a LB 4 LB Sense,the Diaperweights DON'T Punch Harder...


    REED [​IMG]
     
  8. SAHAPHROM...

    REED Had his Secretary Do a Back Ground on Alexander Munoz...

    2 Put it NICELY,His KO% AIN'T $HIT!!!...N Fact,it's Phucking COMICAL...

    Let the Vaudeville Act Begin...

    Munoz Sports an Impressive RECORD of 23 Wins,0 Losses,23 KO's...

    A Grand Total of 3 KO's Occurred Over Foes w/a Winning Record... :eek:

    4 KO's were Over Cats Who NEVER Fought Professionally,When They Stepped N the Ring w/Munoz... :eek:

    10 KO's were Over Cats Who HAVE Fought,But FAILED 2 Win EVEN 1 Fight,N their Careers... :eek:

    Here's MORE Records of Some of Munoz's "Impressive" KO Victims...

    1-8...8-10-1...12-13-1...1-11...1-4 [​IMG] ...

    Nothing Like those Diaperweights...

    If the Talent Pool was Sooooo Vast,Munoz WOULDN'T have 2 Fight Cats w/Records Like This...But These Type of Resumes' R COMMON w/Diaperweights...

    A Cat Can Barely have 10 Phucking Fights & Get a Title Shot...Yeah,that's What REED Calls QUALITY Depth... :rolleyes:

    REED [​IMG]
     
  9. <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by TIP:



    You hit the nail on the head Hitman. No one can deny that Roy Jones is a top notch fighter with a lot of talent. He has proven that. The point though is he needs to fight the other top guy at 175. Untill he does one can only speculate on the outcome. Ray Leonard looked like the best fighter ever in his first 25 fights. He then faced Benetiz and people then realized there were other fighters in his class and that could test him. Ray fought Dave Green next and looked like a world beater again. Then came Duran in Montreal. Ray showed the real fighter he was in fights with Duran, Hearns and Hagler. Those guys were at the very top of their divisions and the best possible competition at the time. Who has been the best possible opponent or challenge Roy has had at 175. The answer is simple everyone including Roy knows who the fighter is. Oscar, Shane, Ricardo, Lennox, Evander, Tito, Fernando and Floyd Jr. all stepped to the plate and met their top opponent, some more than once. Why couldn't the fighter many feel is the best do it too? TIP
    <hr></blockquote>

    JO SAN...

    WHY Do U INSIST on Throwing Michal$HITski N 2 the Mix???...Time After Time After Time After Time After Time After Time After Time After Time...

    HOW Has Michal$HITski Held On 2 his Spot as 2nd Best Light Heavy,by Fighting NOBODIES???...

    HOW???...

    If Roy Is Penalized,N your Eyes,on the Strength of his Resume,then WHY Do U NEVER Do the Same 2 Michal$HITski???...

    U NEVER Do...

    Yet U REPEATEDLY Throw Him Out There,like he's Done Something...

    WHY Do U NOT Penalize Michal$HITski 4 NOT Coming 2 America,Like ALL The Other Marquee Foreign Fighters Have???...


    REED [​IMG]
     
  10. <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Michael Matos:


    Bob Fitzsimmons.
    <hr></blockquote>

    Exactly...

    So Don't Make Light of Roy's Projected Move 2 Heavy,by Making it Seem like Soooo Many Former Middleweight Champions have Won Heavyweight Titles...

    The FACT is,If Roy Can Pull that Feat Off,EVERYBODY Should B Impressed...

    REGARDLESS of your Feelings about Roy Jones...

    REED [​IMG]
     
  11. BJ*

    BJ* Member

    <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by REED:

    A Cat Can Barely have 10 Phucking Fights & Get a Title Shot...Yeah,that's What REED Calls QUALITY Depth... :rolleyes:

    REED [​IMG]
    <hr></blockquote>

    That IS a strange phenomenom isn't it? I notice that alot. Guys with 7, 8, 9 fights getting title shots and sometimes winning :eek: yeah i know about neon leon and vargas...but it seems VERY common in the little leagues...
     
  12. Michael Matos

    Michael Matos Member

    <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by REED:


    Actually,if Memory Serves,BJ Made that Statement...NOT REED...

    Looking @ the Weight Classes,Right Now(2 Day)Doesn't PROVE ANYTHING...

    This is 1 Period of Time Where the Diaperweights May B Flourishing...EVERYBODY Has their Moments...It's CERTAINLY NOT a Trend...

    Throughout HISTORY,Higher Weights have Had BETTER Fighters...This ISN'T Even Debateable...

    w/the Influx of the 2000 Olympians Developing Prospects,things Will Revert 2 NORM...

    Thank God 4 LB 4 LB Lists...But I Guess They ALSO Have Some Sort of American Bias???...

    But That CAN'T B True...Tito,Kostya,Barrera,Morales,Hamed,Lennox...They've ALL Been Perennial LB 4 LB Entrants,Thru the Last Couple Years...

    Hell,Even Ricardo Lopez...

    Even N a LB 4 LB Sense,the Diaperweights DON'T Punch Harder...


    REED [​IMG]
    <hr></blockquote>

    This is one period in time when the diaper weights are flourishing? When did this period begin? 105 has been in existence for 14 years, 108 for les than 10, 112 for over 100, and 115 for less than 20 years.

    Quick look at those statistics tell us that in the last twenty years there has been a huge influx of lower weight fighters in Boxing. 105,108 and 115 were instituted specifically in response to the nunmber of fighters participating in lower weight divisions, a footnote to this is up to the start of WWI there was a 98 pound division in Britain and Europe. Unlike supermiddle and cruiser divisions which were deemed neccessary to bridge significant gaps in weight classes (15 between middle and light heavy).

    The flyweights have always been rich in great fighters and champions. Boxings first and only true undefeated champion before Rocky Marciano, Jimmy Barry was a flyweight champion of the world he retired with a record of 69-0 with 0 no decisons and 0 no contests. Jimmy Wilde one of the greatest fighters of all time, top ten of all time who retired with a record of 145-3, Pancho Villa, Fidel La Barba the first Olympic Gold Medallist to win a world title, in 200 bouts between them Villa and La Barba were never stopped. a trio of brilliant british flyweights Benny Lynch, Peter Kane and Jackie Brown. Pasqual Perez Pone Kingpetch and Fighting Harada, Chartchai Chionoi and Miguel Canto. All good to great fighters with a legend or two sprinkled in for good measure.

    Some will, argue myself included that 105, 108, and 115 have always flourished in their brief history, with Lopez, Alvarez, Michael Carbajal, Humberto Gonzalez, Johhny Tapia, Danny Romero, Khasoi Galaxy and Mark Johnson fighting within ten pounds of each other in a time frame that is only 18 years and anyone can look at that and say that in those 18 years that weight range produced some of the best fighters from any comparable time frame of any divisions in the sport. Bear in mind I said comparable not better than.

    You must either concede that those listed above are representative of the quality of their weight classes, thereby conceding that the diaperweights are a genuine entity in the sport, and always have been, or you must discard what they have done because you feel that the divisions they ruled were inhabited by lesser fighters, thereby diinishing there standings when comparing them to fighters of heavier weight. Pick your poison.


    Postioning Is The Art Of Gunnery.
     
  13. Michael Matos

    Michael Matos Member

    <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by REED:


    Exactly...

    So Don't Make Light of Roy's Projected Move 2 Heavy,by Making it Seem like Soooo Many Former Middleweight Champions have Won Heavyweight Titles...

    The FACT is,If Roy Can Pull that Feat Off,EVERYBODY Should B Impressed...

    REGARDLESS of your Feelings about Roy Jones...

    REED [​IMG]
    <hr></blockquote>

    Who knows it may have been more if fighters like Archie Moore had three belts to go after instead of one title. Maybe when Floyd Patterson turned pro he could have plotted a course for "BoBo" Olsens middleweight belt instead of Ray Robinsons. Roy Jones Jr. the great middleweight champion, so great that he took the path of least resistance to the title, why bother fighting a reigning champion when you can fight for a vacant belt aginst a fighter with no championship experieince.
     
  14. <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Michael Matos:


    This is one period in time when the diaper weights are flourishing? When did this period begin? 105 has been in existence for 14 years, 108 for les than 10, 112 for over 100, and 115 for less than 20 years.

    Quick look at those statistics tell us that in the last twenty years there has been a huge influx of lower weight fighters in Boxing. 105,108 and 115 were instituted specifically in response to the nunmber of fighters participating in lower weight divisions, a footnote to this is up to the start of WWI there was a 98 pound division in Britain and Europe. Unlike supermiddle and cruiser divisions which were deemed neccessary to bridge significant gaps in weight classes (15 between middle and light heavy).

    The flyweights have always been rich in great fighters and champions. Boxings first and only true undefeated champion before Rocky Marciano, Jimmy Barry was a flyweight champion of the world he retired with a record of 69-0 with 0 no decisons and 0 no contests. Jimmy Wilde one of the greatest fighters of all time, top ten of all time who retired with a record of 145-3, Pancho Villa, Fidel La Barba the first Olympic Gold Medallist to win a world title, in 200 bouts between them Villa and La Barba were never stopped. a trio of brilliant british flyweights Benny Lynch, Peter Kane and Jackie Brown. Pasqual Perez Pone Kingpetch and Fighting Harada, Chartchai Chionoi and Miguel Canto. All good to great fighters with a legend or two sprinkled in for good measure.

    Some will, argue myself included that 105, 108, and 115 have always flourished in their brief history, with Lopez, Alvarez, Michael Carbajal, Humberto Gonzalez, Johhny Tapia, Danny Romero, Khasoi Galaxy and Mark Johnson fighting within ten pounds of each other in a time frame that is only 18 years and anyone can look at that and say that in those 18 years that weight range produced some of the best fighters from any comparable time frame of any divisions in the sport. Bear in mind I said comparable not better than.

    You must either concede that those listed above are representative of the quality of their weight classes, thereby conceding that the diaperweights are a genuine entity in the sport, and always have been, or you must discard what they have done because you feel that the divisions they ruled were inhabited by lesser fighters, thereby diinishing there standings when comparing them to fighters of heavier weight. Pick your poison.


    Postioning Is The Art Of Gunnery.
    <hr></blockquote>

    Has REED Said the Diaperweights WERE NOT a "Genuine Entity",N the Sport???...

    No...

    REED is Arguing that THE Best Fighters DO NOT Traditionally Fight N the Extremely Lower Weights...

    Members of "Diaperweight Fanatics" R Arguing the Opposite...

    They're Looking @ the Divisions TODAY,N Comparison 2 Others & Making the Generalization that the Diaperweights R BETTER...

    REED Said HISTORY DOESN'T Support That...

    ALL U've Done is Throw Around Some "Names",But N the SAME Period of Time,that your "Names" Fought,There were BETTER Fighters(& ALOT of Them)@ Higher Weights...

    & U KNOW This...

    Were the Diaperweights Deeeeeeep,N Those Days???...Doubtful...

    Even If they Were,Compare them 2 Other Weight Classes,of the SAME Time & U'll C the Point that REED was Making,All Along...


    REED [​IMG]
     
  15. <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Michael Matos:


    Who knows it may have been more if fighters like Archie Moore had three belts to go after instead of one title. Maybe when Floyd Patterson turned pro he could have plotted a course for "BoBo" Olsens middleweight belt instead of Ray Robinsons. Roy Jones Jr. the great middleweight champion, so great that he took the path of least resistance to the title, why bother fighting a reigning champion when you can fight for a vacant belt aginst a fighter with no championship experieince.
    <hr></blockquote>

    Shoulda,Woulda,Coulda...

    Your Bobo Olson-Floyd Patterson Analogy Holds NO Water...4 1 Simple Reason...

    WHO's the BEST Middleweight Since Marvin Hagler???...

    WHO's the ONLY Man 2 Beat the BEST Middleweight,Since Hagler,N a Middleweight Title Fight???...

    "Path of LEAST Resistance"???...HARDLY...

    U Can Try 2 Paint ALL The Negative Pictures U Want,2 Make Roy's Projected Move 2 Heavy Seem LESS Than it Really Is...

    But Deeeeeep Down,U KNOW a Win Over louise Would B IMPRESSIVE(Especially Considering he's a Former Middleweight CHAMPION)...Even If U Don't Admit it on a Message Board...

    REED [​IMG]
     
  16. The Hitman

    The Hitman Hitman

    <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by REED:


    :rolleyes:

    U're LOSING REED,HITMAN...U're RANTING About NON Issues...

    Calling REED a Liar,But NOT Backing It Up...Saying REED Makes Assumptions,But NOT Backing it Up...

    U're CRYING About "Respect" :rolleyes: ...& Then U Can't Even OWN Up 2 the Fact that U've Insulted REED...

    Fine,No Harm...Just Stick 2 BOXING,N the Future,w/REED,OK???...

    Not Unless U're Gonna ACTUALLY BACK UP your Assertions...

    There is NO Way N Hell that Rosendo Alvarez's Diaperweight A$$ is BETTER Than James Toney(When Roy Fought Him)or Bernard Hopkins(When Roy Fought Him...

    Hill???...No...REED Doesn't Know that Alvarez is Even Better than Reggie Johnson...Probably Not Even Montell Griffin...

    Just Cause he Gave ya Boy his 2 Toughest Fights,Doesn't Make him ALL WORLD...

    When was Alvarez Ranked NO WORSE than 2nd,N the World,LB 4 LB???...Didn't Think So...

    Lopez was Soooo N Favor of "Seeking the Best Opposition" that he FAILED 2 Fight Mark Johnson,Johnny Tapia & Danny Romero,Back when Those Match Ups were Feasible...

    ANY 1 that Attempts 2 Place Ricardo Lopez OVER Roy Jones is HIGHLIGHTING Their Own Hypocrisy...Lopez DOES NOT Have a Better Resume than Jones,DOES NOT Have as Much Talent as Jones & Lopez HAS NOT Accomplished More than Jones...

    Lopez's Blemish on his Record is MORE Controversial than Jones' & his Blemish was NOT Rectified N the UTTERLY Convincing Manner that Jones' Was...

    Quite Simply,Weighing a Buck & Change,Standing 5 Ft,NOTHING Inches,Ricardo Lopez DOESN'T Measure Up...

    REED [​IMG]
    <hr></blockquote>


    put your reading glasses ON reed, b/c you don't seem to be able to make out what i type.

    I called you a liar, by attributing this notion that you have to "go out of your way" to see lower weight class fighters fight to be a real fan to me. You responded with that statement to MY post.

    Assumptions... all that was about was the alcohol thing- saying i can't handle my alcohol. that is an insult to me :D I take me drinking seriously :D :D .

    With your denial reed i am getting tired of typing everything twice.

    i apologize if i offended you.... by calling you a jones wannabe- but what do you expect hahahahaha? "God's gift to Boxing Forums" this IS how you act! "You can't verbally spar w/ REED" or when someone logically breaks down Sweet Pea's career and says they dont rank him in the top 25 all time..... According to mr. know it all reed they are a biased mexican fan (another ASSUMPTION you made with yori boy that he was mexican)...... no doubts- i mean its not possible that people have different opinions- b/c reed thinks otherwise- and reed is undefeated in the realm of boxing forums right? hahahaha

    What can i say about alvarez..... i think he is better than anyone jones has beaten when he beat them- straight up. many people had mosley top 2 P4P that doesnt make him a better fighter than those who (imo) should have been ranked above him. Toney has always been a very overrated fighter imo.

    And don't misunderstand- i agree Jones resume is better, and that he has more talent. All i ever said was that Lopez more skill. i think he does.... its apparant when i watch the two that Lopez is the more skilled fighter.

    Hitman
     
  17. The Hitman

    The Hitman Hitman

    <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by REED:


    Actually,if Memory Serves,BJ Made that Statement...NOT REED...

    Looking @ the Weight Classes,Right Now(2 Day)Doesn't PROVE ANYTHING...

    This is 1 Period of Time Where the Diaperweights May B Flourishing...EVERYBODY Has their Moments...It's CERTAINLY NOT a Trend...

    Throughout HISTORY,Higher Weights have Had BETTER Fighters...This ISN'T Even Debateable...

    w/the Influx of the 2000 Olympians Developing Prospects,things Will Revert 2 NORM...

    Thank God 4 LB 4 LB Lists...But I Guess They ALSO Have Some Sort of American Bias???...

    But That CAN'T B True...Tito,Kostya,Barrera,Morales,Hamed,Lennox...They've ALL Been Perennial LB 4 LB Entrants,Thru the Last Couple Years...

    Hell,Even Ricardo Lopez...

    Even N a LB 4 LB Sense,the Diaperweights DON'T Punch Harder...


    REED [​IMG]
    <hr></blockquote>


    U're Absolutely Correct,the Talent Pool CAN'T B That Deeeeep,CERTAINLY NOT as Deeeep as Higher Weights...

    That's an UNDENIABLE Fact...


    You didnt type that? Memory should serve you a bit better.


    throughout history yes higher weightr classes have had better fighters yes..... but Mr. Matos already dealt with that.

    Overall, i don;t know.... i think the below 118 fighters do hit just as hard in a P4P sense..... but if the almighty reed disagrees i guess that makes it an UNDENIABLE FACT! [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Hitman
     
  18. Valdosta

    Valdosta Boxing Fanatics Moderator

    <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by REED:
    SAHAPHROM...

    REED Had his Secretary Do a Back Ground on Alexander Munoz...

    2 Put it NICELY,His KO% AIN'T $HIT!!!...N Fact,it's Phucking COMICAL...

    Let the Vaudeville Act Begin...

    Munoz Sports an Impressive RECORD of 23 Wins,0 Losses,23 KO's...

    A Grand Total of 3 KO's Occurred Over Foes w/a Winning Record... :eek:

    4 KO's were Over Cats Who NEVER Fought Professionally,When They Stepped N the Ring w/Munoz... :eek:

    10 KO's were Over Cats Who HAVE Fought,But FAILED 2 Win EVEN 1 Fight,N their Careers... :eek:

    Here's MORE Records of Some of Munoz's "Impressive" KO Victims...

    1-8...8-10-1...12-13-1...1-11...1-4 [​IMG] ...

    Nothing Like those Diaperweights...

    If the Talent Pool was Sooooo Vast,Munoz WOULDN'T have 2 Fight Cats w/Records Like This...But These Type of Resumes' R COMMON w/Diaperweights...

    A Cat Can Barely have 10 Phucking Fights & Get a Title Shot...Yeah,that's What REED Calls QUALITY Depth... :rolleyes:

    REED [​IMG]
    <hr></blockquote>

    No, you simply went over to Boxrec. Boxrec doesn't keep complete records of foreign fighters. Munoz Koed Celes Kobayashi who has a VERY good chin, he stopped the same guy Morel beat to win his title also. I HAVE seen the guy and he hits damn hard. Have you?? Didn't think so. You were unable to find anyone with a better KO record I guess huh??

    [ September 12, 2002: Message edited by: Valdosta ]</p>
     
  19. <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Hitman:



    put your reading glasses ON reed, b/c you don't seem to be able to make out what i type.

    I called you a liar, by attributing this notion that you have to "go out of your way" to see lower weight class fighters fight to be a real fan to me. You responded with that statement to MY post.

    Assumptions... all that was about was the alcohol thing- saying i can't handle my alcohol. that is an insult to me :D I take me drinking seriously :D :D .

    With your denial reed i am getting tired of typing everything twice.

    i apologize if i offended you.... by calling you a jones wannabe- but what do you expect hahahahaha? "God's gift to Boxing Forums" this IS how you act! "You can't verbally spar w/ REED" or when someone logically breaks down Sweet Pea's career and says they dont rank him in the top 25 all time..... According to mr. know it all reed they are a biased mexican fan (another ASSUMPTION you made with yori boy that he was mexican)...... no doubts- i mean its not possible that people have different opinions- b/c reed thinks otherwise- and reed is undefeated in the realm of boxing forums right? hahahaha

    What can i say about alvarez..... i think he is better than anyone jones has beaten when he beat them- straight up. many people had mosley top 2 P4P that doesnt make him a better fighter than those who (imo) should have been ranked above him. Toney has always been a very overrated fighter imo.

    And don't misunderstand- i agree Jones resume is better, and that he has more talent. All i ever said was that Lopez more skill. i think he does.... its apparant when i watch the two that Lopez is the more skilled fighter.

    Hitman
    <hr></blockquote>

    Fine,HITMAN...

    REED May have Made that Statement N your Post,But he Was Speaking on a BROADER Scope,Meaning Members of this Site...PLURAL...

    "It was Written" that REED B a Message Board Poster,Among Other Things...Our Puglistic LORD & SAVIOR Sent his Only Begotten Poster(from Planet Roy)2 Spread the Word...

    Excuse REED 4 Acting Like "God's Gift" 2 Boxing Forums,But REED Is... ;) ...

    REED WOULDN'T Call the Labeling of Sweet Pea as "Just a Southpaw" LOGICAL...A Statement Like That REEKS w/BIAS...

    That is What Yori Boy Stated...

    REED Went 2 Far w/the "Biased Mexican" Thing(w/Yori Boy)& REED APOLOGIZED 4 it,But AGAIN,that was MORE of an Obversation of this Site,on a Whole...

    & REED Stands By his Obversation...

    YES,REED is Undefeated...A Few Stand Off's,But NEVER Clearly Defeated... [​IMG] ...

    Based on Your Name Sake,U'd Better Tuck that Chin of Yours,Cause REED DOES HIT HARD,N Debates...


    REED [​IMG]
     
  20. Rebel

    Rebel Admin

    I've read through both pages of this thread and I've realized that not one person has made a case for RJJ being ranked in the the top 20-25, much less the top 10 or the #1 position. Pathetic.
     

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