Why do Trinidad fans have such a hard time admitting DLH is a better fighter?????

Discussion in 'Boxing News and Discussion' started by esk59, Sep 10, 2002.

  1. andrew

    andrew Member

    I for one believe CHUCHU, you guys can believe what you want as i will. But what reason does he have to lie. And he was the one that told us about the Hand injury before ANYONE here knew.
     
  2. Valentino

    Valentino Member

    <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by BIGDAWG:
    Can I ask you cats a question. If DLH ran for the final 3 rounds against Tito and is called a chicken for doing so. What did Leonard do ask Hagler. I recall seeing Leonard on his bike the whole entire fight. But yet Leonard is praised for such a masterful performance while DLH gets blasted.

    Now to answer the question to the thread. And yes it seems as if every Tito fans want to see Vargas beat DLH. Why? Why the anamosity if you feel that Tito really won the fight. But deep down you guys know that DLH exposed Tito. My bad let me answer the question. First off both fighters are all-time greats. But in saying that DLH has more versatility. He can do it all. Now Tito is more dominating as far as the power factor. But we all saw that once your power gets negated (Tito vs DLH, Tito vs Hops) there's nothing else. That being said I truly feel that DLH is the more complete all around fighter. Now that' not taking anything away from Tito. Tito to me is the greatest PR fighter ever. He just don't have all of the skills that DLH has. I'll Holla 5000
    <hr></blockquote>

    Actually, I'm picking ODLH to beat Vargas...so your theory goes down the drain.

    Another thing, you are right: Trinidad is the GREATEST fighter to come out of Puerto Rico.

    But I'm going to share a little secret with you...he is NOT the most skillful fighter to come out of Puerto Rico. In fact, I can mention probably 4 Puerto Rican fighters that were MORE SKILLFUL than Trinidad...but Tito STILL is GREATER.

    1- Benitez
    2- Camacho Sr.
    3- De Jesus
    4- Gomez

    SKILL department were greater than Tito. Some of them even passed him in the TALENT department.

    But Trinidad takes them in the ACCOMPLISHMENT and DESIRE department by a lot.
    Because when everything is said and done, Tito does have SKILLS and TALENT too.

    So, if people think that ODLH has more skills than Tito...I can live with that. Shit, they can say that Austin has more skills than Tito. Doesn't matter.

    It takes MORE than SKILL to measure somebody's GREATNESS.
     
  3. Valentino

    Valentino Member

    BTW, I updated my signature. Thanks for the inspiration!

    [ September 14, 2002: Message edited by: Valentino ]</p>
     
  4. Lefthooker

    Lefthooker Member

    <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by esk59:



    Actually I was serious about Tyson beating Lewis, that's why I put my money where my mouth was.

    How much did I bet on Cherifi? It was a joke. Not only that, but I made it clear before the fight that I thought Trinidad would beat THE BUM Cherifi easily.

    As far as what a DLH victory over Vargas will mean, it's hard to say right now.

    If DLH hits Vargas with something and hurts him early and knocks him out, I wouldn't give DLH too much credit because i'd say that Vargas isn't the same fighter that fought Trinidad.

    However, if Vargas looks great and DLH just shows is superior boxing skills, speed, chin, power and so on, i'll be very impressed.

    I do however think that all the Trinidad fans will cling on to the excuse that Vargas was ruined by Trinidad no matter how DLH beats him IF he beats him.

    And lefthooker, you are quick to accuse me of wanting to diminish Trinidad but honestly, if Vargas wins, the Trinidad fans will praise Trinidad to no end. The will say that *that* means Trinidad is a better fighter than DLH.

    All I know is that it's gonna be a great fight and I can't wait.

    And you can't say that Trinidad is a better fighter than DLH.

    You don't consider *longevity* when rating a fighter?

    DLH is still active and has his best fights ahead of him.

    Trinidad is retired.

    If DLH beats Vargas then has a superfight with Forrest and wins, his legacy will FAR EXCEED Trinidad's.

    Hell the two met in the ring and DLH won.

    I gave DLH the first 9 rounds and Trinidad the last 3.

    Harold Ledderman gave Trinidad rounds 4, 5, 9, 10, 11 and 12. He had it a draw.

    By punchstat DLH LANDED 97 MORE PUNCHES THAN TRINIDAD IN THE FIGHT

    He outlanded Trinidad in every category.

    I think the most anyone can do is give Trinidad rounds 4, 9, 10, 11 and 12. He still loses the fight under this scenerio.

    But two of the three judges GAVE DLH THE 9TH ROUND and that was supposed to be a running round.

    DLH only ran the final 3 rounds. HE WON THE 9th ROUND.

    But let's say you're like Ledderman and give Trinidad rounds 4,5,9,10,11, and 12, that still only makes it a draw.

    And to give round 5 to Trinidad is a TRAVESTY. DLH out threw him and outlanded him TWOFOLD and DLH BUCKLED Trinidad that round.

    We can analize the fight till the cows come home but DLH won the fight. It's as clear as day.

    Even in lay terms, DLH won.

    What did DLH do to win. He outboxed Trinidad 3/4 of the fight.

    What did Trinidad do to win. He chased DLH the last 3 and said "yo gane, ok", "yo gane, ok" after the fight.

    DLH won the fight and it's sad that you would without serious thought say that Trinidad is a better fighter than DLH.
    <hr></blockquote>
    Actually, I say it with much serious thought.
    a)Trinidad, in fighting consecutive top opponents back to back, only came up short once; to a terrific - and physicaly huge - middleweight in Hops.
    b)While DLH cruised through 130, 135 147 and now 154 ( one hell of an achievment I would be the very first to admit),the reason he didn't hang around at the lower weights is because he was fighting at an unnaturally 'shrunken' weight. Thus his early titles - for the most part - came against naturally smaller men.That is not a knock on Oscar, it is simply a matter of fact you must take into account when comparing both guys.
    c)Last time I looked at the record book it read Trinidad W 12 DeLaHoya.You may disagree with that all you like, but to keep repeating the misstatement that 'Oscar won' only serves to erode your credibility.
    d)As DLH is still active, it may well be that he eventually surpasses Tito in greatness. We'll see.I love the guy, so I have no problem with that.It is just my opinion - obviously we differ here - that TO DATE Trinidad is the greater fighter.
    BTW. as I've said on many occasions, I don't think EITHER man should be judged based on the night they met each other; neither was at his best IMO.
    Also, for the record, up until about two weeks ago I thought tonight was a lock for DLH, now I'm leaning toward Nando in a super close fight.That has NOTHING to do with Titos' legacy or bragging rights or anything else.It is simply how I read tonights fight with tonights fighters.
    And lastly, even if Oscar HAD gotten the decision and not Trinidad, I would - today - still think Tito is the greater fighter.He has been much more impressive in my eyes since their fight.
     
  5. andrew

    andrew Member

    <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Valentino:
    BTW, I updated my signature. Thanks for the inspiration!

    [ September 14, 2002: Message edited by: Valentino ]
    <hr></blockquote>

    Also Val i changed my sig. Thanks for the inspiration
     
  6. Punchy

    Punchy Pimp

    <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Valentino:
    What Trinidad actually told ODLH (after the verdict was anounced):

    "Valgo los $8 Millones?" ("Am I worth the $8 Million?")

    That was in reference to some comments ODLH made during the negotiations that "Tito is not worth $8 Millions"
    <hr></blockquote>

    Yes I remember that... it was mentioned in the post-fight interview!
     
  7. BIGDAWG

    BIGDAWG Member

    Valenwhitno,
    Where in my post did I state that Tito was the greatest skilled PR fighter. I never claimed that. What I said and this my personal opinion I feel that Tito is the greatest PR fighter ever. That's me. You may think other. And about my theory being proven wrong. That's not true cause 1 Tito fan wanting DLH to beat Vargas does not ruin my thoery when there are many people on this board as a matter of fact across all of the websites that are Tito fans wanting Vargas to beat DLH. Go to the Tito website and take a look for ya self cat. Now too bad the soft hitting DLH had to ko Vargas alot quicker than what Tito did not to mention he never claim close to going down proves to me that DLH is a all around better fighter than Tito. I'll Holla 5000
     
  8. esk59

    esk59 Member

    I was right, DLH beat Vargas!
     
  9. mex fighter

    mex fighter Meqcksykin

    the best thing of all is that Puerto rico has ZERO champions at this moment.

    has that ever happened before?

    fuck them!
     
  10. esk59

    esk59 Member

    :o
     
  11. K.I.P.

    K.I.P. Member

    No way... this is like a Time Capsule.

    I laugh at my Mex bros...after all De la Hoya became a Puerto Rican.

    ¡Viva Tito! Not until GGG I've seen a fighter with such hunger and passion for my favorite sport.

    Hi all!
     
  12. mex fighter

    mex fighter Meqcksykin

    what the....KIP?????????????

    DAMN!

    oh, and Oscar banged a Puerto rican, not became one.
     
  13. Hawaiianpunch

    Hawaiianpunch Banned

    your comment is 20 decades too late....where have you been rip van winkle?
     
  14. Playboy

    Playboy Member

    When you're putting on a "clinic". You don't need to run from your opponent for for rounds (particularly the championship rounds).
    Everyone knew that if DLH hadn't run, what was coming.

    What does Hopkins have to do with this?
    De La Hoya lost worse to him. Hopkins was bigger by far. Both men had no chance but dared to be great.
     
  15. mex fighter

    mex fighter Meqcksykin

    why not, calderon did it and won.
     
  16. Mark G

    Mark G Member

    I need to sit down and analyze where I rate DLH on an all time great list.

    A few years back, I was impatient for him to take on the biggest risks in boxing. But in retrospect, older and wiser, I see there wasn't much delay. Big fights against tough opponents. Not much careful matchmaking like we have seen with the so-called champs of today. De la Hoya did some of that, fighting shorter guys at Jr. Lightweight and the occasional Patrick Charpentier.

    But in reality, he didn't do anywhere near the match making and hocus pocas fake bullshit that fighters do now. He gave us lots of big fights, and, for the most part, gave us action. It wasn't very often that you would walk away from a De la Hoya pay per view event feeling that he didn't give it his all.

    We didn't get to see De la Hoya - Jose Luis Lopez though. There were rumors that De la Hoya was afraid of him. But Jose Luis Lopez had a work ethic just a notch better than Julio Cesar Chavez Jr., smoking marijuana and surfing. De la Hoya would have outboxed him to W 12 I think.
     
  17. mex fighter

    mex fighter Meqcksykin

    Oscar said he didn't want any part of him....I don't know if it was tongue in cheek, but he said it.

    el maestrito lopez was a hard fucker but Oscar would have outpointed him, not ko'd him.
     
  18. ericjw

    ericjw Member

    Looking back at Trinidad-De La Hoya, that was one disappointing superfight. There's been some duds with Mayweather, but I didn't expect Mayweather's fights to be that good anyway. I thought Trinidad-De La Hoya would be a really good fight, and it was a mediocre fight. Luckily they both had great fights with Vargas afterwards. Especially Trinidad's fight with Vargas, that's one of my favorite all-time fights.

    I had Oscar ahead on points. There were some close rounds. I gave Oscar rounds 2, 3, 5, 6, 7 and 9. I gave Tito rounds 4, 8, 10, 11, 12, with the first round even. Hardly anything happened in that round. Rounds 4 and 8, the first two I gave Trinidad, were close. DLH landed some nice jabs, the most notable shot was Tito countering a body shot with a left hook to the head. Round 8 was close too, I think that was the round were Oscar started off nice and Tito closed stronger, landing a nice left hook, but Oscar was backing away so took away the full impact. Oscar started running more in the 9th, but he started off the round with some nice body to head combos and closed out the round with a nice straight right hand to the head.

    De La Hoya has admitted to being fatigued and said his legs were shaking because they were tired from the movement. His trainers often get criticized for instructing him to stay away. They might have advised him to, but I didn't see that when they showed him in the corner. After one of the rounds, I think the 10th, they said to Oscar "no more rounds like that....box, box....make sure they know you won the rounds". The trainers may have gotten too much flack for how the fight turned out.

    It's surprising they never had a rematch, given the controversial nature of the fight and their popularity. Oscar had a great resume but could be a bitch and a diva when it came to giving rematches. Although I thought Oscar won this fight, I tend to lean towards Tito if they rematched at 154.
     
  19. Michael Matos

    Michael Matos Member

    I would have taken Tito in a rematch as well.
     

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