Discussion in 'Boxing News and Discussion' started by indomitablechin, Jan 26, 2004.
I'd say Hopkins.
Hopkins has the better defense but Hagler had the better chin.
Hagler had the best chin I've ever seen.
Hopkins may have better defense but the prime Hagler wasn't that far behind. Too many people remember Hagler from the Hearns, Mugabi & Leonard bouts where he really had diminished reflexes & his best defense was his skull.
Good point, when I thought about this topic I was thinking about Hagler-Mugabi I still think he got hit a bit more than Hopkins. Then again IMO, Hagler fought a MUCH higher level of opposition throughout his career.
Hagler got hit alot vs. old Duran also in the first Hamsho bout. Hagler does have better chin and perhaps more power, but Hopkins is faster and has more lateral movement. In one of the "what if series" from Maxboxing had Hagler easily beating Hopkins in 5 rounds but I highly disagree. I can see Hagler winning a close decision or the other way around. I think the Hopkins that beat Trinidad would beat Hagler or Leonard of 87.
speaking of "What if..." series from Maxboxing, I dont know who wrote those columns, but some of them were just plain ridiculous. For example, Trinidad TKO Ray Leonard, Rahman KO1 Douglas, De La Hoya TKO Hearns. Leonard would've beaten the shit out of Trinidad, Douglas(the version that spanked Tyson) would've beaten the shit out of Rahman, and Hearns would've outboxed De La Hoya.
I would say whoever wrote that loves more current fighters and disregards retired fighters I agree with all of your picks.
Hopkins by a distance, IMO
I lived through both eras.
I will tell you one thing?I can see ODLH defeated Hearns at 147 lbs. It is POSSIBLE. Hearns is of course, the favorite and more likely winner.
I can see Tito defeating Leonard at 154 lbs (not at 147lbs). It is possible.
All four fighters were great fighters with punching power. We are not talking here about bums.
The Leonard that fought at 154 lbs, was not a good as the one that fought at 147 lbs.
Hearns was a great fighter with NO CHIN. ODLH had LOT OF CHIN and a great left-hook. And SPEED.
Let?s not kid ourselves. But I do believe a lot of those fighters from the 80s are romanticized. And the fighters for the 90s are not. Especially if that fighter has a last name that is Latino (De La Hoya, Trinidad).
I watched every Hagler fight (from Antuofermo until Leonard).
I can say one thing?Hopkins had CONSIDERABLY better defense than Hagler.
I'm with the consensus here Hagler had awkwardness his stance and stuff, but overall Hopkins has better defence. Actually one of the best defences for a brawler-boxer like him.
Hagler had an underrated defense. He was excellent at parrying, and blocking punches with his gloves. Still, I'd say Hopkins is more elusive. Hagler had a better chin though.
yeah, Hopkins defence is right up there with the best of them, whatever style
i don't think it's underrated. i've never heard anyone say his defence sucks. i think it's very good but hopkins is street ahead of him IMHO. that's nothing to be ashamed of.
Hops is a technically better defensive fighter, but Hagler (when young) was hard to hit flush because of his shifty 'switch up' ability.He was also a guy who was very good at catching with his shoulders - something the oldtimers used to do a lot, but you don't see much anymore.
Also, as you guys point out, even when he was popped it had no effect.
Marvin also had much better opposition than Hops, so it's hard to assess just how good Bernards D would be against top fighters his own size.
IMO Hopkins is a better fighter now ( recent version - the last 2/3 years) than he was when younger.Certainly in terms of defense and craftiness.
His offense has gotten a little 'slappy' in some of his recent outtings, but that may just be a lapse in concentration due to inferior opponents.
While I could see a Hopkins at his very best beat Hagler ( and Leonard) of 87, I do not see Bernard on his best night beating Marvin on HIS best night.
Out of curiosity, has Toney ever been floored? I know of the chicken move knockdown but as far as I'm concerned it wasn't a true knockdown in the sense that he was hurt. I think he lost his balance and just kept backpedalling before falling. I think his chin is really granite. Has Lights Out ever been really floored or hurt as in danger of being stopped?
Reggie Johnson dropped James Toney.
Correct, nice straight shot caught him square on the chin and he was seated nicely on his ass.
Still, I don't think it came close to hurting him. I do however think Evander seemed to shock him in the first round of their fight, kind of like Ruiz shocking Roy in the first round last March.
I would definitely pick the Hopkins that beat Tito over the 87' Hagler or Leonard.
Prime Hopkins vs. Prime Hagler= pick em matchup
Hopkins is better defensively than Hagler was.
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