Sonny Liston Documentary

Discussion in 'Boxing News and Discussion' started by Michael Matos, Nov 16, 2019.

  1. Michael Matos

    Michael Matos Member

    I don't know if anybody caught the Sonny Liston documentary on Showtime last night. They had been building it up for a couple of weeks as it being the comprehensive documentary of Liston's life and frankly I was quite disappointed. It touched on the basic facts of Liston's life and career but for the most part it was a bunch of conspiracy theories loosely tied together by a bunch of people who are trying to make a buck off of Liston's name.
    blackrican23 likes this.
  2. Hawaiianpunch

    Hawaiianpunch Banned

    Did the conspiracy theories have something to do with him taking a dive against Ali?
  3. Michael Matos

    Michael Matos Member

    Among other things. They left out so much.
  4. Hawaiianpunch

    Hawaiianpunch Banned

    A lot of people that put Ali up an pedestal and believe he's the greatest deny it. I think it's possible he took a dive because boxing is so corrupt and even more in those days. But I still feel that Ali was the greatest fighter of his generation and clearly beat Liston twice. I just dont feel he's the greatest. I actually rank Manny Paquio higher than Ali.
  5. Michael Matos

    Michael Matos Member

    The second Liston-Ali fight was one of the things that left a lot out. The general theme pf the documentary was that whenever Liston got to a point in his career when everything was going right it was snatched away from him and that was generally true and the second fight with Ali and was one of those times and they didn't touch on it. Liston lost the title to Ali in February 1964 and the rematch was scheduled for November of '64. Two weeks before the fight Ali had to have emergency hernia surgery and the fight was pushed back to the following May. By all accounts and this was from dedicated boxing writers when all of the major newspapers had dedicated Boxing writers that Liston was as focused as anybody had ever seen him, was spending hours in the gym everyday and every writer to a man who was covering his training camp said it was the best Liston they had ever seen. Then the fight got postponed for six months and Liston just never cared after that. The documentary left all of that out.

    Another thing they left out was that in the years after losing the rematch to Ali that Liston fought in Europe for two years after that fight and it was because he was befriended by Floyd Patterson who was the only person who reached out to Liston after the Ali fight and Patterson had a younger brother named Ray Patterson who lived in Sweden and fought there exclusively and Floyd suggested to Sonny that he move to Sweden and rehabilitate his career away from the madness that was swirling around him in America. Liston didn't fight in America until 1968 and it was odd they didn't bring that up because one of the main people who was interviewed for the documentary was Patterson's business manager. Also one of the yahoo's they interviewed said that Liston's career wen the way of many fighters who start losing more than they win which was blatant bullshit because Liston's record after losing the Ali rematch was 15-1.

    The documentary was based on a book and when they started to discuss Liston's death is when the documentary went off the rails because they had the author who came across to me as a shifty character to begin with offered up theories on Liston's death. The fist theory was that Liston was at a drug bust and was never charged and the people who got arrested believed Liston snitched on them and killed him out of revenge, another theory was that he was supposed to throw a fight to Chuck Wepner and because he didn't throw the fight the New Jersey mob had him killed. Chuck Wepner? The 19-5-2 Chuck Wepner. Then there was a theory that a crooked cop got Liston killed. The last theory was that a hotel owner along with a jazz musician had Sonny killed because they were in the drug business together and Liston was collecting money for them and somehow was skimming money off the top.
    Remus and mex fighter like this.
  6. Remus

    Remus Member

    the doco is called Pariah for anyone else interested. the name certianly gives away the motivation imo.

    i wouldn't call it a doco as much as a movie version of a columnist commentary. listons personal life and his ring life are interesting enough so you have to wonder why the team focussed on "what if" instead of honing in on what is far more interesting...the "what was".
    Michael Matos likes this.

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