Some interesting Delphi poll results

Discussion in 'Boxing News and Discussion' started by Joonie73, Jan 12, 2004.

  1. Joonie73

    Joonie73 Guest

    I think these are all interesting bouts on Delphi's mythical fight section. I am also surprised at a number of the results. Feel free to discuss:

    Alexis Arguello 14-11 Meldrick Taylor
    Alexis Arguello 14-12 Ken Buchanan
    German Torres 8-5 Rosendo Alvarez
    Ray Leonard 21-4 Pernell Whitaker
    Ruben Olivares 8-5 Fighting Harada

    and the most controversial of all (not just in terms of closeness of the vote but heated posts generated):

    Floyd Matweather 13-12 Esteban de Jesus

    P.S. Why don't people use the poll function more often for the mythical match-ups here? It add to the fun.

    [ January 12, 2004, 04:21 AM: Message edited by: Joonie73 ]
  2. Rebel

    Rebel Admin


    I'd take Taylor over Arguello at 140. Arguello wasn't prime at that weight.

    Arguello over Buchanan sounds about right.

    I haven't seen much of Torres to make a pick on his matchup with Alvarez.

    Leonard over Whittaker for sure.

    Olivares over Harada. I don't think Harada hit hard enough to keep Olivares honest and Olivares was tough and could bang. The decider is that he's Mexican. The Mexicans almost always wins. [​IMG]

    I'm a Mayweather groupie so I'd take him over Dejesus. :D

    [ January 12, 2004, 08:19 PM: Message edited by: Rebelde ]
  3. Valdosta

    Valdosta Boxing Fanatics Moderator

    I agree with those except I think Arguello (the one that fought Pryor the first time), beats Taylors ass. I pick Alvarez to beat the shit out of torres also.
  4. Joonie73

    Joonie73 Guest

    Here's how I voted myself:

    A lot of people think Taylor was an elusive, Whitaker-like fighter, but he wasn't. He used his speed to hit you some more, not run & box. I think he brawled too much for his own good & that would be his undoing v. Arguello.

    I actually think Buchanan wins a close one over Arguello. Lesser boxers gave Arguello trouble & I think Buchanan's chin was too good to suffer the fate of Olivares or Mancini.

    I pick Torres to beat Alvarez in a war. Incomparably better power & most likely a better chin as well. A fast, slick boxer beats Torres, not a slugger.

    I don't consider Leonard v. Whitaker a competitive match-up at 147.

    I also agree Olivares beats Harada.

    I don't have a strong opinion on de Jesus v. Floyd but lean toward de Jesus.

  5. Valdosta

    Valdosta Boxing Fanatics Moderator

    Yes, I went to boxrec and checked out Torres's record. He was knocked down by Chang twice (I saw that 1), and was stopped early and late in his career. Alvarez has never even been close to being stopped and to my knowledge has only been off his feet 1 time (he was out of shape). How does torres likely have abetter chin??
  6. Joonie73

    Joonie73 Guest

    I don't really put too much emphasis on fighters getting knocked out very early in their career or very late in their career when they are not even at a world contender level. Besides, all of Torres' KO losses were technical knockouts; he's never been stopped for a 10 count. (And 1 of the early knockouts was to Ursua, who was a monster puncher & Torres beat him in 2 subsequent bouts.) I haven't seen his 3 early knockout losses but I saw the late 1 v. Yul-Woo Lee & that was a questionable stoppage & after an incredible beating.

    I'd also point out 2 things. Because Torres' defense was so porous & he relied in taking 3 or 4 shots to land his 1 money shot, he took severe punishment every time out. So his chin is more tested in the sense that he took exponentially more shots than Alvarez. Further, I think Torres faced heavier punchers overall. No one Alvarez faced hit remotely as hard as Ursua (who was a lot like Torres in that he was slow, unskilled but had a monster punch).

  7. Valdosta

    Valdosta Boxing Fanatics Moderator

    So because Alvarez has better defense, and don't get hit as much his chin must not be as good?? [​IMG] Ricardo Lopez punched harder than Chang and Alvarez was never even stunned where as Torres can't exactly say the same in his fight against Chang. He was KD 2 times and stunned some others. Alvarez being a straight forward fighter runs into his fair share of punches also, especially as he has gotten older.
  8. Joonie73

    Joonie73 Guest

    Chang did hit Torres with a lot of elbows & head-butts though. Torres still claims to this day that's what knocked him down :D

  9. Joonie73

    Joonie73 Guest

    Lopez was not in the same class as a puncher as Ursua. Check out Ursua v. Zapata. Zapata is clowning & toying with Ursua & then wham! 1 big right & Zapata is dead.

  10. Valdosta

    Valdosta Boxing Fanatics Moderator

    If Chang could have brought the kitchen sink in the ring, he would have :D Torres took a lot of punches before being dropped but then again Lopez landed a lot of punches on Alvarez.
  11. Valdosta

    Valdosta Boxing Fanatics Moderator

    I dont doubt that Torres fought some harder punchers than Alvarez. He did fight around 80 fights overall. I just don;t see how you can be so sure Torres has a better chin than Alvarez who has always shown a great chin himself.
  12. Joonie73

    Joonie73 Guest

    I said "most likely"; so it is a somewhat qualified statement [​IMG]

  13. Valdosta

    Valdosta Boxing Fanatics Moderator

    If you said, "most likely not", I would agree with you [​IMG] Anyways, did you ever get the tape I sent you?
  14. Joonie73

    Joonie73 Guest

    Not yet. Actually, I was going to ask you about it because it's been a while since we talked about it. But I assumed that you were too busy & would send it later.

    Hmmm. I may have to go to the post office to check if it doesn't come soon.

  15. Valdosta

    Valdosta Boxing Fanatics Moderator

    Damn, well let me know if you get it later this week with a private message. If you don't get it, i'll make another
  16. Joonie73

    Joonie73 Guest

    Sure. But I doubt it is lost. There are probably delays. In NY USPS is known for massive delays sometimes.

  17. TIP

    TIP Member

    Leonard beats the crap out of Whitaker IMO.

    I think Buchannon wins a convincing decision against Arguello. Buchannon's underated IMO. Great boxer with superb movement and very tough.

    Arguello/Taylor is a tougher one to call. If Meldrick fights with discipline he could decision or possibly tko Alexis later. If he gets a little careless Arguello might time him. I lean towards Meldrick because Arguello wasn't as sharp beyond 135 IMO.

    Alveraz is a very tough skillful dude and underated also. I like him over Torres.

    Olivares over Harada.

    Mayweather/Dejesus is a tough call. Estaban beat several excellent boxers with speed Edwin Viruet and Ray Lampkin are a couple examples. I don't think PBF has anyone on his record that Dejesus couldn't beat either. PBF may not have peaked yet though and is has excellent skills. It would a tactical fight and I think Dejesus had a little more power. At this point in time I think I'd take Dejesus in a close one. PBF has impressed me a lot though and he's not afraid to take on tough challenges. I might think differently in a year or so.
  18. Michael Matos

    Michael Matos Member

    Of course you don't put too much emphasis on fighters who get knocked out early in their careers before they become world class contenders. Unless of course they get knocked out by Chang a la Ohashi and Kuramochi after 6, 11, and 15 fights respectively. But Lord forbid don't question that because then we get a lecture on the unknown Asian fighter, and they are better than they really are beacuse they are neglected by the western press and the tape says this, and they had a Muay Thai career before they decided it was easier to use your legs to stand, and on and on and on Ad Nauseum. Blah Blah Blah.

    Oh of course how can I forget your last line of defense. "I never said that".
  19. Joonie73

    Joonie73 Guest

    What's up your ass, Matos? I've never said either Ohashi or Kuramochi were top-flite challengers. I have never even hinted, implied, or insinuated that. Ask Tam if I've ever said so.

    I've posted hundreds of posts on Chang on Boxingtalk, Delphi & here, many of them discussing Chang's competition. Most of them are stored. I challenge you to pick a single post where I claimed that Ohashi or Kuramochi were good contenders or opponents.

    I don't mind a good, vigorous debate. But poking fun at people for something they've never come close to saying is not cool.

    [ January 14, 2004, 03:37 AM: Message edited by: Joonie73 ]
  20. Michael Matos

    Michael Matos Member

    I see by your reponse, the point I was trying to make flew over your head like fighter jets at a state funeral.

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