RJJ vs. Ruiz in perspective.

Discussion in 'Boxing News and Discussion' started by andrew, Feb 23, 2003.

  1. andrew

    andrew Member

    How good is this fight really? If he wins, No body in modern history will achieved what he has. What is RJJ up against? A guy who has 7 1/2 inch reach advantage, a guy who will out weigh him by probably 40 pounds, a guy who is 4 foot taller then him. Im not claiming Ruiz is the greatest heavy ever but he is good. If RJJ does this it will be phenominal in my eyes. Could this be very close to putting him in top 10 p4p ever?
     
  2. zboxz

    zboxz Member

    While we are at it lets ask 2 questions:

    1. What does the winner win?

    2. What does the loser lose?
     
  3. Rebel

    Rebel Admin

    <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Andrew:
    How good is this fight really? If he wins, No body in modern history will achieved what he has. What is RJJ up against? A guy who has 7 1/2 inch reach advantage, a guy who will out weigh him by probably 40 pounds, a guy who is 4 foot taller then him. Im not claiming Ruiz is the greatest heavy ever but he is good. If RJJ does this it will be phenominal in my eyes. Could this be very close to putting him in top 10 p4p ever?<hr></blockquote>

    NO.

    RJJ isn't fighting the HWY champion of the world like a few other LHW champs have done in the past. He is fighting a paper champion, barely a top 8 hwy. It will be impressive if he can pull it off but it's not something that should make him a legend IMO. Chris Byrd was a MW in the amateurs and as a pro has wins over Tua (Ruiz' father) and Holyfied (an old legend). Maybe Chris Byrd should be top 5 all-time now? [​IMG]
     
  4. andrew

    andrew Member

    <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Rebel:


    NO.

    RJJ isn't fighting the HWY champion of the world like a few other LHW champs have done in the past. He is fighting a paper champion, barely a top 8 hwy. It will be impressive if he can pull it off but it's not something that should make him a legend IMO. Chris Byrd was a MW in the amateurs and as a pro has wins over Tua (Ruiz' father) and Holyfied (an old legend). Maybe Chris Byrd should be top 5 all-time now? [​IMG]
    <hr></blockquote>


    Wow he fought at MW in the amatuers, thats amazing. Maybe if Byrd had won a world titles at MW, SMW and become undisputed LHW, then go on to fight and beat the guys he has. By all means top 5 all time for sure. But he hasnt, thing is correct me if i am wrong. Chris Byrds 3rd pro fight was at heavyweight. The situations are far from compareable.

    If RJJ does win, there will be only a few close to achieving what he has in boxing. Who else has done what i mentioned above? Beat a heavyweight champ who is 4 foot taller, 40 pounds heavier with a 7 1/2 reach advantage? Plus the rest of his career? Not too many i assure you.
     
  5. Valdosta

    Valdosta Boxing Fanatics Moderator

    Heavyweight paper titleist.
     
  6. neil

    neil Guest

    Ruiz is 4 feet taller than Jones? Holy shit, someone get this 10 foot Puerto Rican guy a basketball jersey he'll make the world forget about Yao Ming
     
  7. zboxz

    zboxz Member

    Great match up

    Yao Ming vs. Spud Webb
     
  8. Boxeo

    Boxeo Guest

    <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by neil:
    Ruiz is 4 feet taller than Jones? Holy shit, someone get this 10 foot Puerto Rican guy a basketball jersey he'll make the world forget about Yao Ming<hr></blockquote>

    lol

    This thread should be changed to how far will Andrew go to strech the truth.


    If Jones beats Ruiz it will be impressive for the obvious reasons but I has to be said that Jones is an opportunist who hand picked the most pathetic paper HW champion I have ever seen in my lifetime even Douglas was better than the 10 foot Rican :D .
     
  9. Rebel

    Rebel Admin

    <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Andrew:



    Wow he fought at MW in the amatuers, thats amazing. Maybe if Byrd had won a world titles at MW, SMW and become undisputed LHW, then go on to fight and beat the guys he has. By all means top 5 all time for sure. But he hasnt, thing is correct me if i am wrong. Chris Byrds 3rd pro fight was at heavyweight. The situations are far from compareable.

    If RJJ does win, there will be only a few close to achieving what he has in boxing. Who else has done what i mentioned above? Beat a heavyweight champ who is 4 foot taller, 40 pounds heavier with a 7 1/2 reach advantage? Plus the rest of his career? Not too many i assure you.
    <hr></blockquote>

    Byrd is still a small hwy fighting in a division ruled by giants. That must place him somewhere in the top 5 for sure. ;)

    RJJ isn't undisputed at LHW. [​IMG]

    BTW, didn't Thobela win a title at LW and then at SMW? Wow, he was really at a physical disadvantage and still won. That's why I have him in my top 3 P4P of all-time. [​IMG]

    [ February 24, 2003: Message edited by: Rebel ]</p>
     
  10. andrew

    andrew Member

    <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Rebel:


    Byrd is still a small hwy fighting in a division ruled by giants. That must place him somewhere in the top 5 for sure. ;)

    RJJ isn't undisputed at LHW. [​IMG]


    [ February 24, 2003: Message edited by: Rebel ]
    <hr></blockquote>

    Sorry i mean 4 inches thats still huge and alot of you guys dont have much of a response to how big this fight really is. And how big of an achievement it really is.

    He was undisputed, but gave it up to fight against Ruiz for a heavyweight title. If he wins he will be the first to win a middleweight title and win a title against a "true" heavyweight.

    [ February 24, 2003: Message edited by: Andrew ]</p>
     
  11. posty_84

    posty_84 Guest

    I see it this way. ALthough i love Roy, he will never be the best heavyweight. Tyson or Tua would kill the poor fella.
     
  12. Lefthooker

    Lefthooker Member

    <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Rebel:


    Byrd is still a small hwy fighting in a division ruled by giants. That must place him somewhere in the top 5 for sure. ;)

    RJJ isn't undisputed at LHW. [​IMG]

    BTW, didn't Thobela win a title at LW and then at SMW? Wow, he was really at a physical disadvantage and still won. That's why I have him in my top 3 P4P of all-time. [​IMG]

    [ February 24, 2003: Message edited by: Rebel ]
    <hr></blockquote>
    And let's not forget Vinny Paz - another LW and SMW winner. All-time top 3 P4P too, no doubt!
     
  13. Lefthooker

    Lefthooker Member

    <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Andrew:


    Sorry i mean 4 inches thats still huge and alot of you guys dont have much of a response to how big this fight really is. And how big of an achievement it really is.

    He was undisputed, but gave it up to fight against Ruiz for a heavyweight title. If he wins he will be the first to win a middleweight title and win a title against a "true" heavyweight.

    [ February 24, 2003: Message edited by: Andrew ]
    <hr></blockquote>Bob Fitzsimmons did it almost a hundred years ago, I believe.
    Andrew, Jones has been a LHW for donkeys years.Dozens of active LHW champs have challenged for the HW title (the REAL HW title!).
    Jones taking on a big guy like Ruiz is commendable - I give him props - but he is taking on a big guy INSTEAD of a good guy.If Roy wants credit for fighting a large person - fair enough; he deserves it.If he wants to say he's fighting for the Heavyweight championship, he would have to be fighting Lewis - not Ruiz.
     
  14. Lefthooker

    Lefthooker Member

    The title of your thread is 'RJJ vs Ruiz in Perspective'.
    The problem is most RJJ fans REFUSE to see this match-up in it's proper perspective.
    BTW, fighters have been dealing with physical disadvantages against larger opponents since the very beginning of boxing.
    Duran gave up all kinds of size advantages to challenge for the MW crown - and we're talking HAGLER here - not Johnny Ruiz!
     
  15. The Hitman

    The Hitman Hitman

    <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Lefthooker:
    The title of your thread is 'RJJ vs Ruiz in Perspective'.
    The problem is most RJJ fans REFUSE to see this match-up in it's proper perspective.
    BTW, fighters have been dealing with physical disadvantages against larger opponents since the very beginning of boxing.
    Duran gave up all kinds of size advantages to challenge for the MW crown - and we're talking HAGLER here - not Johnny Ruiz!
    <hr></blockquote>


    i agree to a point- no doubt there are many who overrate the significance of this fight. don't get me wrong, it IS significant- and IMO if jones wins it will be a great accomplishment. but to say no one else has acheived something like this is an outright lie. the only thing that jones is facing that is significant is a big size difference- he is fighting a heavyweight who has a distinct lack of skills. Nobody be fooled by the belt strapped around ruiz' waste (esk's laughable post aside) ruiz is NOT the heavyweigght champ in fact he is not even close. He is a top 6 heavy (lewis, wlad, byrd, tua and vitali all rank ahead of him imo) and at best he is the 5th best heavy (at BEST). There have been light heavyweigghts who have beaten top 5 heavyweights, but no in the days past they didnt' have all kinds of belts to lay claim to being champ.

    If Jones wins i will be singing his praises for doing something i sure as hell don't think he can do..... but there will be many who overrate the accomplishment.... by a longshot too- top 10 all time P4P? haha

    Hitman
     
  16. SuperJ

    SuperJ Member

    Expect a speedy debut and depature at the hw divison. [​IMG] One thing is certain, he ain't sticking around.
     
  17. phonetap

    phonetap Member

    Should Jones beat Ruiz it will be a HUGE win because he would have defeated A heavyweight champion. While Ruiz isn't THE heavyweight champion, he IS a legitimate heavyweight and a top 5 or 6 one at that. Ya'll haters better recognize...
     
  18. Lefthooker

    Lefthooker Member

    <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Hitman:



    i agree to a point- no doubt there are many who overrate the significance of this fight. don't get me wrong, it IS significant- and IMO if jones wins it will be a great accomplishment. but to say no one else has acheived something like this is an outright lie. the only thing that jones is facing that is significant is a big size difference- he is fighting a heavyweight who has a distinct lack of skills. Nobody be fooled by the belt strapped around ruiz' waste (esk's laughable post aside) ruiz is NOT the heavyweigght champ in fact he is not even close. He is a top 6 heavy (lewis, wlad, byrd, tua and vitali all rank ahead of him imo) and at best he is the 5th best heavy (at BEST). There have been light heavyweigghts who have beaten top 5 heavyweights, but no in the days past they didnt' have all kinds of belts to lay claim to being champ.

    If Jones wins i will be singing his praises for doing something i sure as hell don't think he can do..... but there will be many who overrate the accomplishment.... by a longshot too- top 10 all time P4P? haha

    Hitman
    <hr></blockquote>Actually, Hitman we are in complete agreement.
    I also think it is a big accomplishment.
    Jones will get much more respect for this move if he - and his supporters - stop trying to gin it up into more than it is.
     
  19. Lefthooker

    Lefthooker Member

    Historicly, this fight would be akin to John Henry Lewis ( LH champ at the time ), fighting Buddy Baer ( top 6 or 7 HW at the time).
    Note that Lewis actually challenged the REAL champion, Joe Louis.
    Don't you think it was more courageous for J.H.Lewis to go up against Louis rather than a limited giant like Baer?
    According to the logic applied by Jones fanatics, the SIZE of the opponent - not the quality - is what's important here.
    That flies in the face of the way fighters have been judged since the inception of the sport.
     
  20. phonetap

    phonetap Member

    <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Lefthooker:
    Historicly, this fight would be akin to John Henry Lewis ( LH champ at the time ), fighting Buddy Baer ( top 6 or 7 HW at the time).
    Note that Lewis actually challenged the REAL champion, Joe Louis.
    Don't you think it was more courageous for J.H.Lewis to go up against Louis rather than a limited giant like Baer?
    According to the logic applied by Jones fanatics, the SIZE of the opponent - not the quality - is what's important here.
    That flies in the face of the way fighters have been judged since the inception of the sport.
    <hr></blockquote>

    Don't be ridiculus...the size gap between Roy Jones and Lennox Lewis is MUCH greater than that of J.H. Lewis and Joe Louis. Look how Lennox towered over Tua & Tyson (both the same height as Roy Jones)...Roy being much lighter in weight would look like a child in the ring. Remember heavyweight are MUCH bigger today than during Joe Louis' reign...
     

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