Mosley-Forrest II Updates and discussion

Discussion in 'Boxing News and Discussion' started by Valdosta, Jul 20, 2002.

  1. Abate

    Abate Guest

    <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by BULLYSON:
    hey kid c...

    i agree with ya...

    all in all... i thought it was quite intriuging... despite how lampley, merchant, and foreman tried to pump up mosely... then come back down to reality in the last like 2-3 rounds...

    either fighter could've broke out... osely or forrest...

    and tarver gave us something to talk about...

    i thought it was descente also...
    <hr></blockquote>

    Well I'm glad it wasn't only me that noticed that HBO was desperately trying to pump up Mosley, especially Foreman (and Lamps towards the end). There were a few occasions where Mosley hit Forrest with that chopping right hand and Forrest just rolled with it (like always) and it had absolutely no effect on Vernon and Vernon came back with a solid right hand or left hook on Mosley's chin and the HBO crew only acknowledged Mosley's half ass right hands and ignored Forrests clean blows. My homey and I were like WTF are they trying to hype all of Mosley's rare moments and ignoring all of Forrests moments that are occurring more frequently? I remember at the end of one round (the round where a fight broke out in the crowd), Forrest cracked Mosley right on the button with a hard straight right hand and the HBO crew said absolutely nothing, just plain old ignored it. The HBO crew has been pissing me off lately. I expect this from George cause he has blatantly been biased before (see Trinidad-Hopkins) but when Lamps and Merchant chime in it pisses me off.

    Kid CT

    [ July 21, 2002: Message edited by: Kid Connecticut ]</p>
     
  2. andrew

    andrew Member

    Well done to Forrest he fought very well and won a clear UD. Mosley couldnt hurt him enough to discourage him. Forrest jabbed well at times and threw some nice punches. Both fighters were a little guilty of throwing one punch and nothing after it.

    Vernon won me $93 today, where is Hazza? Probably partying :D . He cleaned you fellas up AGAIN.
     
  3. Michael Matos

    Michael Matos Member

    <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Valentino:
    116-112 Forrest.

    Once again SKILLS defeated TALENT.

    Sadly enough, I think that Mosley KNEW he could not defeat Forrest with SKILLS so he tried his best and hoped for the best (TALENTED fighters always HOPE for the judges to give them the fight over SKILLFULL fighters).

    I wish both the best.

    Two good guys...indeed.
    <hr></blockquote>

    Val I was going to drop you a post on this very same topic. If it was ever an example of your arguement it was last night. I saw the talent of Mosely essentially snuffed out by Forrest doing one thing all night and that was just show Mosely the right hand, don't even throw it just show it to him. You knew from Ronnie Shields in the corner that in training camp that was drilled into his head day after day.

    Of course it is not as simple as just showing the right hand, when showing you must be in a postion to make the other fighter think you are able to throw it, that takes the required footwork, angles and feints. Each and everyone an aqquired skill.
     
  4. Michael Matos

    Michael Matos Member

    <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Kid Connecticut:


    Well I'm glad it wasn't only me that noticed that HBO was desperately trying to pump up Mosley, especially Foreman (and Lamps towards the end). There were a few occasions where Mosley hit Forrest with that chopping right hand and Forrest just rolled with it (like always) and it had absolutely no effect on Vernon and Vernon came back with a solid right hand or left hook on Mosley's chin and the HBO crew only acknowledged Mosley's half ass right hands and ignored Forrests clean blows. My homey and I were like WTF are they trying to hype all of Mosley's rare moments and ignoring all of Forrests moments that are occurring more frequently? I remember at the end of one round (the round where a fight broke out in the crowd), Forrest cracked Mosley right on the button with a hard straight right hand and the HBO crew said absolutely nothing, just plain old ignored it. The HBO crew has been pissing me off lately. I expect this from George cause he has blatantly been biased before (see Trinidad-Hopkins) but when Lamps and Merchant chime in it pisses me off.

    Kid CT

    [ July 21, 2002: Message edited by: Kid Connecticut ]
    <hr></blockquote>

    The commentary last night was blantantly one sided. It was almost a disservice to the sport. I thought Merchants scorecard was absurd, and his disdain for Forrest is billboard size visible.
     
  5. Carlos

    Carlos ---

    <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by BULLYSON:
    i'd like to see:

    damgarrd vs mayorga

    <hr></blockquote>

    I would like to see that too, but i don't think it will happen.

    Michele Piccirillo was close to signing to defend in Berlin against Michel Trabant in august. Apparently this won't happen, earlier this year Piccirillo mentioned Damgaard as a very likely opponent later this year. My guess is, that Piccirillo fights Damgaard, in copenhagen later this year - Possibly on the Bredahl-Gamez undercard. Again..this is just me speculating, nothing confirmed. But it does make sense Damgaard is rated 3 by the IBF and they dont have anyone at #1 or 2.
     
  6. Lefthooker

    Lefthooker Member

    It is almost embarrassing to think that Mosley was being held up as the next true great in the vein of Robinson or Leonard.He may have had his day in the sun, but that day is over.
    Harsh? Perhaps, but I watched a very ordinary fighter last night. Very ordinary indeed.
    The fight itself flat out stunk.I've had more drama and excitement making toast.
    Forrest deserved to win less than Mosley deserved to lose, so I suppose justice was done.Shane seemed absolutely terrified of the right hand and it paralyzed him all night.
    You can make all the excuses you like, to me, it's hard to believe these are the two best welters in the world ( I believe they are, but shouldn't we expect much more from this calibre of fighter?)
    This even beats Tito-DLH for the 'Best Fighters/Worst Fight' award.
     
  7. Hut*Hut

    Hut*Hut Member

    This whole thing reminds me of Ali/Norton.

    I had it to Mosley, as it happens, by one. I hardly saw Forrest land a single meaningfull punch the whole fight. The bout was a fucking nightmare - this year has been disapointing as far as big fights go.

    Mosley is a better fighter, but its a classic stlyistic disater for him, Id like to see him fight Wright or Vargas to see how good he is.
     
  8. SuperJ

    SuperJ Member

    <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by valdosta:


    Well Val, that was FAR from a great fight. In fact it sucked!! :mad: On the bright side your Wallett is now $500 heavier :D

    [ July 20, 2002: Message edited by: valdosta ]
    <hr></blockquote>

    Are you talking to youself?? LOL!

    [​IMG] Anyhow, I think one fight against a non-threat would determine how well he would do moving up. ie) DLH compromising power against Javi. What he would carry with him etc. I'm skeptic though. I'm with Bully, cause he's one of my favorites and don't want to see him get damanged.

    [ July 21, 2002: Message edited by: SuperJ ]</p>
     
  9. Valentino

    Valentino Member

    <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Michael Matos:


    Val I was going to drop you a post on this very same topic. If it was ever an example of your arguement it was last night. I saw the talent of Mosely essentially snuffed out by Forrest doing one thing all night and that was just show Mosely the right hand, don't even throw it just show it to him. You knew from Ronnie Shields in the corner that in training camp that was drilled into his head day after day.

    Of course it is not as simple as just showing the right hand, when showing you must be in a postion to make the other fighter think you are able to throw it, that takes the required footwork, angles and feints. Each and everyone an aqquired skill.
    <hr></blockquote>


    Thanks man.

    Tip is another advocate of the Talent vs Skill differences.

    Mosley has LOT of talent and some skills.

    Forrest has LOT of skills and some talent.

    If you match two fighters at their best weight and at their prime together...and if you measure what each fighter success is based on and comes up with

    "Fighter A":60% GREAT SKILLS and 40% GREAT TALENT
    "Fighter B":40% GREAT SKILLS and 60% GREAT TALENT

    (assuming EVERYTHING else is the same -e.g. heart/desire and experience)

    then "Fighter A" SHOULD WIN over 90% of the times.

    That's my view.
     
  10. unionjax

    unionjax Member

    I've been one of Mosley's biggest supporters throughout his career. Even after his first loss to Forrest back in January & even through last week when he went on & on about the headbutt, the low blows & the holding all being pre planned & one big conspiracy to take his title. :rolleyes:

    But last night's performance really disappointed me & is forcing me to reevaluate my opinion of him. Now I'm not one of those people who jump off a fighter's bandwagon as soon as they hit a rough patch in their career, never have been.
    Mosley may have made last night's contest closer on the scorecards than their first encounter was, but I have more respect for his effort in fight 1 than I do for what he did last night in fight 2. At least he showed heart & a will to win back in January 2 things he seemed to lack last night.
    I partially blame Jack Mosley as well as it was obvious that they had no real plan or strategy in place just like in January.
    Last night the commentaters mentioned that the Mosleys studied Leonard-Hearns 1 as a sort of blueprint for their fight plan. Well if they did, they failed to execute it miserably.
    Leonard the boxer was forced to become Leonard the banger in that fight because he couldn't outbox Hearns from the outside by using his speed like he thought he could. Leonard realized this & made the sacrifices necessary in order to do so. Meaning that he was willing to take some in order to give some. He had to go into the belly of the beast & take the feared Hitman Hearns right hand in order to get in his own shots. And that's just what he did.
    He took a lot of punishment in order to get into position to deal out his own. Remember his swollen shut left eye? :eek:
    Leonard had that overwhelming desire to win by any means necessary & to overcome adversity in order to be victorious. Sad to say, but last night Shane Mosley most definitely did not.
    I mean c'mon, Vernon Forrest is a very good fighter & he's got a damn good right hand, but Tommy Hearns he most definitely is NOT. Yet Mosley stood around on the outside last night jabbing & pawing at thin air rather than risk taking Forrest's right hand.
    Even when his father told him that he was way behind on points & NEEDED to take the final 3 or 4 rounds or KO Forrest, Mosley didn't step it up. Infact he seemed to GIVE AWAY rounds 10 & 11 rather than go for it! Sad.

    [ July 21, 2002: Message edited by: unionjax ]</p>
     
  11. BULLYSON

    BULLYSON Member

    c'mon jax... i thought forrest was real good last night...

    he snapped his jab... never pawed with it...

    countered pretty nice with his left... showed some hand speed...

    didn't get careless with his right... picked good spots to use it...

    defensively he showed good upper body movement...

    he was smart in there... he kept the fight on the outside... wouldn't let mosely get off anything on the inside...

    and any half descente punch mosely hit forrest with... vernon either shook off and showed no affects of being hurt or answered right back with something of his own...
     
  12. ronnnn

    ronnnn Guest

    very disappointed with the fight last night..

    shane was in trouble coming in at 158....he should have been closer to the limit....he was spent....

    i gave him the first 2 rds.....and i think he could have boxed a decision win, if he wasnt overweight....he usually is on his toes, bouncing around.....not here though.....he was spent

    i dont think vernon did anything to win this fight...except clinch....

    same with shane.....i had forrest winning, or a draw...

    i cant really make an argument that shane won....

    i think shane lost his head at times....lunging in, rough house antics......

    all shane did was try to hit him with the looping overhand right,then tie him up, but when the guy is bigger than u and after about 30 tries, i would think you would figure it out by then.....vernon was just waiting for that right....

    mosely was bigger and physical with his other opponents..not here....

    shane was flinching alot, weary of that right..where was the movement, the left....

    go to the body shane.....no, he wanted to head hunt, with a guy who has a good chin.....didnt he learn anything when fought him the first time?

    jack mosley is to blame as well.... i think shane needs a new trainer......these father-son teams dont work......

    kudos to shane for taking this fight, and forrest for winning, but i dont think much of vernon....

    154? no way.....i dont care about his undefeated record, he will lose....i dont think much of vernon forrest at all....he will probably lose his next fight....

    forrest is an average fighter, who used his size against shane...


    as for shane, the hype is over....i agree with xplosive's takes on him....his claim to fame was beating dlh in a close decision....this makes me wonder if dlh is really that good...

    i was never a bandwagoner of shane...i thought he was overhyped, and looked at his record...DLH...

    people comparing him to SRL, SRR...way to early for that...even people comparing him to RJJ..roy doesnt lose 2 fights in a row.....and i think roys skills talents are better than shane's hands down....and people had this guy ahead of roy...ridiculous...

    i was glad when vernon beat him the first time, and after that fight said he would beat him again...lol

    i was wrong...does he have his number?? i dont know about that....

    but i cant argue with the decision, although i thought it was closer....it was a boring fight..the telling part was when the crowd was more interested when a real fight broke out in the stands....lol.....

    if anything i would like to see a rematch...i am not satisfied with these results.....is forrest really that much better than shane? i dont think so....

    so styles make fights..at least in this case, and the bigger man won....

    i think shane should not go to 154...if anything going to 140 or staying at this wt is wise i think....

    i will say this....i still think shane can beat anyone else,except for vernon......
     
  13. BULLYSON

    BULLYSON Member

    i thought forrest was the one who looked spent... not mosely

    vernon spent a good amount of the fight with his mouth open... i kinda wonder about it...

    and IMO mosely made all the adjustments he could without straying too far from the way he naturally fights... he showed good spring in his legs for most of the fight... the problem... alot of his footwork was defensive and not offensive, he spent more time trying to get out of the way of shots rather then to set up his own...

    i gotta agree with valentino here... forrest just has his basic boxing skills... but he knows them well... forrest is kinda like an "anti mosely", he lacks the flash and dash... but when it comes down to it... he's still more effective...
     
  14. Yori Boy

    Yori Boy Member

    I couldn't see the fight live :( but I set the VCR to tape it. VF did enough to win. Sort of ugly fight. Thumbs up to VF and Destiny's Child.
     
  15. BULLYSON

    BULLYSON Member

    it never came to me in my half drunken stupor last night... but it has now...

    the biggest surprise of the night...

    laurence cole reffed a real good match... i was worried at first that he was gonna mess it up, but it turns out he did a good job in there...
     
  16. Valdosta

    Valdosta Boxing Fanatics Moderator

    shane was in trouble coming in at 158....he should have been closer to the limit....he was spent....By Ronn

    Not really, I have paid attention and that's pretty normal for him. He usually walks in at 156-158 when he comes in the ring.

    forrest is an average fighter, who used his size against shane...

    Average fighter doesn't beat Shane Mosley 2 times in a row.

    so styles make fights..at least in this case, and the bigger man won....

    Styles do somewhat make fights BUT Forest was the BETTER man, not just bigger.

    if anything i would like to see a rematch...i am not satisfied with these results.....is forrest really that much better than shane? i dont think so....

    After last night you are probably in the minority in this 1 lol
     

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