Mayweather will beat Tszyu or Oscar

Discussion in 'Boxing News and Discussion' started by neil, Mar 26, 2003.

  1. Valentino

    Valentino Member

    Tito didn't ran. He demanded an immediate rematch (after beating the French pastry) with Hopkins or a second fight with ODLH...neither happened and then he retired (nothing for him there).

    Tszyu in the other hand didn't demand a rematch. In fact, he was content with fighting BUMS (and some good fighters).

    Trinidad couldn't see himself fighting BUMS after BUMS and be happy with himself. That is NOT running...that is having RESPECT for himself, his fans, and the sport.

    And I glad he retired...because I would have been FURIOUS if he would have fought another French pastry or gone through 3 or 4 fights of BUMS. Like Tszyu did.


    Then again, if you call that RUNNING...then, I'm glad that he RAN.

    But don't change HISTORY...because he indeed tried to fight Hopkins and ODLH. Therefore, there is NOT parallel with Trinidad and Tszyu.
     
  2. Valentino

    Valentino Member

    [

    [ March 29, 2003, 04:51 AM: Message edited by: Valentino ]
     
  3. Valentino

    Valentino Member

    This is were you are mistaking, it was publisized in the USA and PR at least that after the French dude, Tito only wanted to fight EITHER ODLH or Hopkins. In the event he couldn't get anyone on the ring with him, he was going to retired, because he didn't want to fight BUMS.

    So he did seek a rematch. Even Hopkins fans will tell you that.

    Hopkins didn't show any interest in Tito (he wanted to fight RJJ and was trying to use a negotiation ploy on Tito)...and ODLH had no interest, citing that he had more interest on Vargas at the time.

    Tito then retires.

    He did EXACTLY what he said was going to do. Nothing more and nothing else. People though he was joking...he wasn't.

    My point? You are CHANGING facts, to fit your Tszyu fantasy. The fact is...there are NOT parallels between Tszyu and Trinidad.
     
  4. Remus

    Remus Member

    lol, well i certainly yanked your chain. good to see i can still aggravate you. thats important becasue i'd hate to lose that ability. :D

    and i still lost respect for tito when he retired. i still rate him hghly and he will still be rank as one of my all time faves but he lost one fight and then he leaves ? nope, that's not for me.

    i like seeing guys come back from adversity. i like seeing how they take on that challenge of losing and how come back from it. tito didn't do that.

    who knows, maybe he knew he couldn't do much more once they found out about the lead in his gloves.
     
  5. Valentino

    Valentino Member

    What challenge did he have? Only TWO...Hopkins and ODLH. Unless fighting BUMS and JOURNEYMEN is what you call "challenge" for a World Class fighter like Trinidad.

    You didn't yank my chain. I'm simply pointing out that you are changing HISTORY to fit your agenda.


    The fact is...Trinidad wanted only TWO fights...ODLH or Hopkins. Trinidad didn't want to fight bums, which is EXACTLY what Tszyu did.


    Here are two links to prove the HISTORICAL facts of my argument and prove once against that Tito is NOT Tszyu (which didn't even try to fight Phillips)...

    http://www.puertorico-herald.org/issues/2002/vol6n20/PRSportsBeat0620-en.shtml

    "The next fight we want is Hopkins. Tito wants to fight Hopkins," said Trinidad Sr. "It doesn't make any sense to wait for De La Hoya or for anyone else. If De La Hoya fights in September we would have to wait too long for our next fight and in reality, De La Hoya doesn't really want a rematch with Tito."

    "I want to fight Hopkins. They're might be a change if Don King wants me to fight De La Hoya, but I want Hopkins.

    "I'm not saying I don't want De La Hoya, but first I want Hopkins. If my next fight is with Hopkins, I assure you that I am going to make him pay for everything he has said and done."


    http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/sports_talk/2088342.stm

    "The 29-year-old decided to end his career after being told by Don King that there was little chance of a rematch with Bernard Hopkins, who inflicted his only professional loss."


    Once again...the man WANTED ODLH and Hopkins. He couldn't get them...what was he suppose to do? Fight a series of bums? That is what you are implying...you lost respect for him, because he didn't fight BUMS and JOURNEYMEN.

    That might explain why you are a Tszyu fan.
     
  6. Remus

    Remus Member

    who was trying to say that tito was zoo first of all ? :confused: i KNOW tito is the more accomplished and gifted fighter but that does not mean he is above repproach.

    and what challenge did he have you ask ? seeing whether he could still cut it despite losing. proving to himself and to everyone else that the one loss didn't shatter him so badly that he had to get out of the sport. having never laced a glove yourself, i doubt you would know those kind of instincts anyway so this point will fall on deaf ears.

    who knows, maybe it was the gloves, maybe he was so much of a confidence fighter that the loss shattered him and he didn't want to take the long trip back from oblivian. he wanted an immediate rematch, it didn't come off. so what ? that doesn't mean you retire. that means you stick it out, no matter who you fight. stick it out and fight until you force a rematch by your actions in the ring. he didn;t wanna wait ? what sort of shit is that ? he couldn't wait a year, 18 mnths, 2 yrs ? gimme a break.

    i'm not rewriting history at all. he did retire. and he retired after a loss and a win against a bum.

    believe me man, putting down zoo with the 'ol fighting nothing but bums arguement is as tired, old and stupid as your ridiculous rjj claims. so save your babble for someone else.
     
  7. Valentino

    Valentino Member

    You seem to forget that I was the ONLY poster in this board that ranked Tszyu # 1 P4P in my list (prior to moving back into the DYNAMITE DOZEN lists).

    You seem to forget that I'm one of a HANDFULL of posters that believe Tszyu will give Mayweather Jr a BEATING proporsional to the one that Chavez gave to Taylor


    Trinidad did fight ONE BUM after his defeat...and he KTFO of that bum. That is a mute point...he would have continued to KTFO of BUMS the same way RJJ defeated his bums. In Fact Tito would have retired two or three years from now like a GOD, by KTFO of ALL those bums...but he had self respect. He wanted TWO GREAT fighters.

    He tried to fight Hopkins and ODLH...couldn't get the fights and he retired.

    P.S.

    RJJ has been fighting bums for YEARS and CONTINUOS to do so (nothing ridiculous about that...unless you consider Ruiz an all time great). However, you don't see me calling RJJ a bum or anything like that. 'Cause I consider him one of the best fighters of the last 10 years.
     
  8. Valentino

    Valentino Member

    Man...that is lack of SELF RESPECT. A man that was used to fight the BEST for the last 2 years, forced to fight BUMS so he can get a rematch? What kind of shit is that? What does that prove? It proves nothing.

    I mean, do you think that fighting BUMS would have force anything? I think telling a fighter, "fight me or I will retired" is a BLUNTER statement than fighting a bunch of BUMS.

    He told them...fight me NEXT or fight me NEVER.

    Look at Hagler...do you lost respect for him? What about Spinks?

    Trinidad place in History is already secured. He doesn't need ODLH or Hopkins. He doesn't need $$$. He is practically a GOD in Puerto Rico. What more can he ask? Shit...he cheated on his wife with a FASHION MODEL and his wife STILL took him back (a divorce would have destroyed him ECONOMICALLY).


    To answer your question...he couldn't way 18 months, a year, 2 years...fighters like Trinidad that pride themselves on CHALLENGING themselves cannot wait that amount of time. Especially when they were used to fight GREAT fight after GREAT fight for the last 5 or 6 fights of their careers. He is too proud for that shit.

    I don't expect you to understand that.
     
  9. phonetap

    phonetap Member

    the truth always has a way of silencing muthafuckas... [​IMG]

    phonetap [​IMG] Valdosta
     
  10. The Hitman

    The Hitman Hitman

    what this one? "Yesterday I was lying, today i am telling the truth"

    Hitman
     
  11. Remus

    Remus Member

    in ONE of your posts you're looking like a fool. it's either your first analysis that zoo is a #1 p4p fighter, or your latest posts saying he has fought nothing but bums since he lost to phillips. the two takes you have completely contradict eachother.

    you can't have it both ways, (unless you're superj ;) ). either he is a top p4p fighter or he is a nobody who has fought bums for years in which case he couldn't possibly be a top p4p fighter.

    pick which angle you wanna live by cos the two arguements you present are mutually exclusive.

    either way, whichever arguement you eliminate it certainly does put serious question marks on the validity and authority on your opinions.

    [ March 29, 2003, 06:08 PM: Message edited by: Remus ]
     
  12. Punchy

    Punchy Pimp

    you perverted old man... you like a bit of sandwich action, huh? :D
     
  13. Valentino

    Valentino Member

    I didn't say he was a number 1 P4P. What i said was that in one occasion I HAD him number 1 P4P.

    Shit...RJJ has been fighting BUMS and he is ranked number 1 P4P.


    He is a TOP P4P fighter that is HAPPY by fighting some easy fighters, instead of trying to go with a BAM.

    I don't think Tszyu wants to go with a bam.

    I do believe that he has fought the best available 140 pounders. No doubt.

    But still...he wants to close in the low level.

    But what can you expect from a RUSSIAN?
     
  14. Remus

    Remus Member

    weak argument tino...can you say EXPOSED ?
    [​IMG]
     
  15. SuperJ

    SuperJ Member

    Sure you can have it both ways.

    Who says you can't? No denying he is great 'but'

    You know as well as I do there are greats and then there are GREATS that set the pace and 'CHALLENGE' themselves moreso than other fighters seeking defining fights making their mandate the BEST available opposition. This is a RARE quality which is what SEPARATES THEM from others.

    [ March 29, 2003, 09:59 PM: Message edited by: SuperJ ]
     
  16. Remus

    Remus Member

    no you can't. it's one or the other. you can't sit on the fence all the time. in fact this isn't even sitting on the fence. it's jumping from one side to the other.

    it can;t be done with any credibility IMO.

    btw: zoo is not an all time great. a modern great he is, an all timer he is not. all time he isn't in dlh/hops/tito league.
     
  17. SuperJ

    SuperJ Member

    This is nothign to do with sitting on the fence. I agree with this above statement.

    Like I said, there are greats (Kostya) and then there are GREATS! That was always my arguement and I have never called Kostya a bum.

    If you contend otherwise then illustrate such by quoting one of my posts.
     
  18. phonetap

    phonetap Member

    phonetap agrees with you in that people shouldn't sit on the fence...

    [ March 29, 2003, 10:10 PM: Message edited by: phonetap ]
     
  19. neil

    neil Guest

    thats true, tszyu is not an alltime great like mayweather will be.
     
  20. SuperJ

    SuperJ Member

    Remus if you read my resonse, MY OPINION

    You know as well as I do there are greats and then there are GREATS that set the pace and 'CHALLENGE' themselves moreso than other fighters seeking defining fights making their mandate the BEST available opposition. This is a RARE quality which is what SEPARATES THEM from others.

    and then yours which followed.

    btw: zoo is not an all time great. a modern great he is, an all timer he is not. all time he isn't in dlh/hops/tito league.

    You basically responded with the same conclusion as me.

    Differentiating between greats and all time greats does not make someone a fence sitter.
     

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