Loma vs Lopez

Discussion in 'Boxing News and Discussion' started by Michael Matos, Oct 13, 2020.

  1. Mark G

    Mark G Member

    I do.

    I watch whatever they put on on Box Azteca! lol

    Always a Gallito Estrada fan too and Chocolatito.

    I'll go for any Mexican boxer named Julio Cesar, even junior!
  2. Mark G

    Mark G Member

    I have to add Vargas to that list against Trinidad.

    I think the first round against Trinidad really destroyed his career.
    Michael Matos likes this.
  3. mex fighter

    mex fighter Meqcksykin

    nah, i disagree. he was going well and even ahead after the 6th round. it was the shots to the balls throughout the fight why he lost and destroyed his career.
    El Profesor likes this.
  4. mex fighter

    mex fighter Meqcksykin

    yeah, some uppity posters claim they never watch anyone under 135 even though they're from mexico and the greatest mexican fighters are:

    jm marquez
    chiquita gonzalez

    yep, you guessed it...all under 135. this poster sure missed some of the best fights in history.
  5. Mark G

    Mark G Member

    He continued to fight well, but it was because of huevo-power.

    Vargas always had the heart of a champion.

    But I think he suffered head trauma in the 1st and just toughed his way through it. Thus causing the overall damage the fight caused to be even greater. And yes, he was kicking Trinidad's ass despite it all for a while. The low blow did coincide with a turnaround for Trinidad if I remember that correctly.
  6. El Profesor

    El Profesor Member

    The 12th round against Tito definitely ruined Vargas.
    Tito's ball shot to Vargas in the 4th saved Tito because he was getting rocked.
    The continuous ball shots by Tito set Vargas up for that career-altering 12th round. RIP Vargas' career.
    mex fighter likes this.
  7. Hawaiianpunch

    Hawaiianpunch Banned

    Isnt it funny how Trinidad was a monster puncher until he got caught loading his gloves pre margarito. After that he was never the same. I believe Tito got away with cheating prior to Hopkins.
  8. mex fighter

    mex fighter Meqcksykin

    king nazeem later admitted there was nothing wrong with tito's wraps.
  9. Michael Matos

    Michael Matos Member

    Word coming out that Lomachenko had shoulder surgery on Monday. So far no information as to whether the shoulder was previously injured or the injury occurred during the fight.
  10. Michael Matos

    Michael Matos Member

    Now Teofimo has undergone surgery to repair fractures and ligament damage in his foot. Injuries were sustained in the Lomachenko fight. Lomachenko had surgery to repair a busted wing and now Teofimo has a bad paw. Some fight huh?
    El Profesor likes this.
  11. Jeremy

    Jeremy Member

    I’ll always admire Vargas for the way he hung in there ...
  12. Jeremy

    Jeremy Member

    Or the new Cintron ...
  13. Michael Matos

    Michael Matos Member

    Or the new Jaime Garza....
  14. Michael Matos

    Michael Matos Member

    Or the new Jaime Garza....
  15. Carlos

    Carlos ---

    Who is THE greatest mexican boxer (not trying to be a smart-ass just curious!)

    For me, i'd probably say lbl Finitio, but i cannot help but question the quality he faced a bit, eventhough he was brilliant - the next ones are close IMO, depends on if you look at whole carreers or individual fights. Always found Marquez to be a bit of a blockhead though (i'll shut up now)
    mex fighter likes this.
  16. mex fighter

    mex fighter Meqcksykin

    Tough question. The majority will say chavez.

    Toss up between chavez, sanchez, and finito.
    Carlos and El Profesor like this.
  17. Rebel

    Rebel Admin

    IMO, one can make a case for Marquez. Chavez didn't have that longevity nor did he ever defeat anyone as great as Pac. Chavez also turned into a bitch when the going got tough. I believe he was only like 32 when he began his fade.

    Finito was great but lacked quality opposition.

    Sanchez was very good, but wasn't around long enough. And there were clues in his fights which tell me he was overrated. Nobody Juan Escobar nearly KOd him and he lost many rounds to guys like Cowdell, Garcia, and Ford. He gets a lot of credit for the Azumah fight, but people fail to recognize that was a green ass Azumah who took the fight on short notice and he nearly pulled off the upset. I have no doubt that Azumah could've won the rematch a few years later at 130. I'm also not confident Sanchez beats guys like Chavez or Arguello at 130.
    Carlos likes this.
  18. Valdosta

    Valdosta Boxing Fanatics Moderator

    Sanchez had a great resume for a guy who was 23. Who cares if he lost some rounds and got dropped when he was 19. His resume is arguably better than all the top Mexicans.
    Carlos, Michael Matos and mex fighter like this.
  19. mex fighter

    mex fighter Meqcksykin

    Rebel talking about sanchez and chavez as if hes been into the sport for 3 years and learned everything on youtube.

    Part if knowing their greatness is living that era and feeling their fights.

    Thats like me saying prime ali is overrated.

    About beating pac....we can argue he'd been knocked out before and it took him 4 fights to beat him while marquez was roided up.

    See how easy it is to discredit someone.
  20. Hawaiianpunch

    Hawaiianpunch Banned

    Good call on throwing the blockheads name out there. I wouldnt expect any less from you lol. I'm not sure if he is better than Sanchez or Chavez. But this article helps put things in prespective by comparing him to his peers. That's Barrera, Morales and Paquio.


    Juan Manuel Marquez faces Juan Diaz on Saturday night in a rematch of their 2009 Fight of Year. The fight, as well as a stacked undercard, is on HBO pay-per-view.

    LAS VEGAS — The original purpose of this blog post was to try to determine who accomplished the most among the great Mexican trio of Marco Antonio Barrera, Juan Manuel Marquez and Erik Morales.

    After speaking to several experts who have followed the fighters’ careers, though, I arrived at a conclusion: Impossible task. In other words, it all depends on what criteria you use to make a determination.

    “Ask 10 people about this and all 10 will have a different take on it,” said Eric Gomez, matchmaker at Golden Boy Promotions. Or, in the words of historian and writer Cliff Rold, who did rank the three, “Ask me in five minutes and I’ll give you a different order.”

    The fighters’ resumes are quite similar. Consider:

    • Their careers are roughly parallel: Barrera turned pro in 1989, Morales in 1993 and Marquez in 1993.
    • Remarkably, all three of them have won six major titles in three weight classes.
    • They have won between 64 and 75 percent of fights against titleholders (Morales 15-5, 75 percent; Barrera 18-7, 72 percent; Marquez 9-4-1, 64 percent).
    • Barrera and Morales are both 2-4 against their counterparts among the trio plus Manny Pacquiao. Marquez is 1-1-1.
    • Barrera is 2-2 solely within the trio (not including Pacquiao), Morales 1-2 and Marquez 1-0. Morales and Marquez have never fought.
    • All three fell short against Pacquiao, going a collective 1-5-1 against the “Mexicutioner.” Barrera was 0-2, Morales 1-2 and Marquez 0-1-1.
    There are also differences that set each apart. Here’s a look at their careers.


    Barrera’s career was the most up-and-down of the three.

    The Mexico City native, who turned pro at 15, was a 43-0 brawler with nine successful defenses of his junior featherweight title — including a classic victory over Kennedy McKinney — when he lost back-to-back fights to Junior Jones and then retired. That allowed him time to have a metal plate installed in his head to correct a vascular malformation.

    Barrera (66-7, 43 knockouts) returned less than a year later and, reinventing himself as more of a boxer than a reckless warrior, re-emerged as a star by whipping then-unbeaten Naseem Hamed. He also initiated one of the greatest trilogies of all time, losing a split decision to Morales in 2000 but beating him in 2002 and 2004.

    Barrera, apparently feeling the wear and tear of so many wars, seemed to be in decline when Pacquiao stopped him in 11 rounds in 2003. However, he rebounded again to outpoint Morales and win a title in the rubber match and make four successful defenses against solid opponents.

    Barrera is 3-3 in his last six fights, the three losses — all convincing — coming against Marquez, Pacquiao and Amir Khan.

    In the end, although he’s not quite finished, “The Baby-Faced Assassin” has had 73 fights — including the 25 against titleholders, one third of his total — over a thrilling 21-year career that will make him a first-ballot Hall of Famer.

    So how does he compare to Morales and Marquez? Rold rates him the best of the three for a simple reason.

    “Barrera faced as good a level of opposition as Morales but won two of their three fights, so he gets the nod,” said Rold, who believes Marquez’s accomplishments fall just short of his rivals.


    Morales (49-6, 34 KOs) might have been the most reckless of three, which probably explains why he declined at a somewhat younger age than his counterparts. He was incredible for a solid 12 years, though.

    The Tijuana star was 35-0, with victories over the likes of Daniel Zaragoza, Jones, Barrera and Kevin Kelley before Barrera handed him is first loss, a unanimous decision in their second fight.

    Morales was hardly finished, though. He rebounded to win six consecutive fights before losing again to Barrera by yet another razor-thin decision.

    Morales then recorded arguably his greatest victory, a close, but unanimous decision over a surging Pacquiao in 2005. The Filipino hasn’t lost since.

    “He’s the only Mexican to beat Pacquiao. That’s big,” said publicist Ramiro Gonzalez of Golden Boy, who covered all three fighters as a sports writer.

    Morales is 1-4 since he beat Pacquiao — including a brutal beating in his final fight against the Filipino — and is barely hanging on. However, his legacy is secure: He was one of the most-successful and exciting fighters of his era and will join Barrera in the Hall of Fame.

    “I can see an argument for Morales,” Rold said. “He beat Pacquiao while Barrera was never competitive with (Pacquiao). And Morales beat Jones, although Jones had been stopped immediately before that (by McKinney).”

    Ricardo Jimenez, a Top Rank publicist who also covered all three fighters for a newspaper, couldn’t chose between Morales and Barrera when asked who is No. 1 among the three.

    He was fairly certain about one thing, though.

    “Morales was the most-popular of all them because of the way he fought, hands down,” he said.


    The figures mentioned in the bullet points above seem to demonstrate that Marquez’s accomplishments fall just short of his rivals. To reiterate, he has fought fewer titleholders and has a lower winning percentage against them.

    The fact he has had fewer big fights isn’t really his fault, though. For whatever reason, he couldn’t get Barrera and Morales — or any other major star — to fight him until Barrera finally did in 2007.

    Even Pacquiao had yet to become a true star when he and Marquez first met in 2004.

    Marquez had further bad luck against Pacquiao, whose draw in their first fight and close decision in their second caused some observers to cry foul. Many believe that Marquez should’ve been awarded both decisions, which would’ve changed his legacy radically.

    Finally, while he is probably the best technical boxer of the three, he also has the least-pleasing style for those who crave action. He’s a master counterpuncher.

    Still, Marquez found stardom late in his career. Dominating and exciting victories over Barrera, Rocky Juarez, Joel Casamayor and Juan Diaz in the 2009 Fight of the Year have lifted him to the status of his rivals and made him a certain Hall of Famer.

    Not even a one-sided loss to Floyd Mayweather Jr. in an ill-conceived, but lucrative fight will change that.

    And Marquez, 36, does have at least one thing over Barrera and Morales: He remained a top-level fighter after they faded and can still enhance his legacy while they probably can’t.

    Another victory over Diaz on Saturday would add to his resume. He talks of challenging the top fighters in the deep 140-pound division, which raises the possibility of Marquez becoming the first Mexican to win a title in a fourth weight division.

    And his dream would be to get a third fight with Pacquiao. Imagine if that happens and he wins?

    Marquez might yet pass his rivals.


    The result of this project, more than anything else, was a reminder of how great all three of these fighters have been.

    We can talk about who was better and why but it’s really just talk, “an interesting conversation,” as Gomez put it. The bottom line is this: Barrera, Morales and Marquez were precious gifts to fight fans who admire an unusual combination of skill and courage.

    “I’m thankful that I grew up as a kid with the (Ray) Leonard foursome,” said Rold, referring to Leonard, Thomas Hearns, Marvin Hagler and Roberto Duran. “Then, when I was older, I lived through a magnificent heavyweight era with (Evander) Holyfield, (Mike) Tyson and (Lennox) Lewis.

    “And, when I was in college, I got to see a featherweight foursome,” he added, referring to Pacquiao, Barrera, Morales and Marquez. “I think they stack up with any group of the past.”

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