Is Manny Paquiao GOAT material?

Discussion in 'Boxing News and Discussion' started by Mexican Eagle, Jan 3, 2011.

?

Is Manny greater than?

  1. De La Hoya

    6 vote(s)
    50.0%
  2. Roy Jones Jr

    4 vote(s)
    33.3%
  3. Roberto Duran

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. Ali

    2 vote(s)
    16.7%
  1. Mexican Eagle

    Mexican Eagle Member

    Obviously his career isn't finish but assuming he has a few great fights left in the tank...How great is he. If he beats Mayweather is he greater than Sugar Ray and Ali?
    Is he greater than Trinidad and Delahoya right now? is he greater than roy jones jr.?
     
  2. mex fighter

    mex fighter Meqcksykin

    not even close. if he had fought at the legitimate weight classes and not at bullshit catchweights, then maybe.
     
  3. davemurphy

    davemurphy Member

    Probably a question for later, like you say. It's four pretty illustrious names you've chosen and hard to top, but I think at the very least, even his biggest critics would probably admit he's earned the right to at least be mentioned among them at this point.
     
  4. Rebel

    Rebel Admin

    I agree with Dave. Let's wait until his career is over. What if he suffers a devastating KO loss like RJJ and then never recaptures the glory? I'm sure he'll be viewed differently if that happens.
     
  5. O-Dogg33

    O-Dogg33 El Mero Mero

    I think where he stands right now he's better than DLH and Trinidad were. DLH had the names on his resume he just couldn't consistently beat the top guys. Had Oscar been given the Trinidad decision (which sucks but it is what it is) and the Mosley II decision which was also bullshit cause of the roids then I'd probably have them even. But that's the problem with Oscar even though he was never really outclassed ( except Hopkins, Pac) he never really had that dominance that Pacquiao has so I give Manny extra points for that.

    If Pacquiao gets a few more good wins I'd put him above Roy. If he beats Floyd he's definitely in rare GOAT company. It'd take a lot to get above Ali, Sugar Ray, and Duran though.
     
  6. Rebel

    Rebel Admin

    IMO, Pacquiao surprassed RJJ a long time ago. He's got the resume, the multi-division success, he's always been exciting, and for the most part has been willing to face the top guys during his prime. Pacquiao was also able to come back from losses, particular KO losses, unlike Roy whose career fell apart after the first clear loss of his career.
     
  7. witton_lane

    witton_lane Boxing Fanatics All-Time Great

    This. Better than DLH probably, but not close to the others. A few questionable wins in there too, as well as the losses. His wins over Cotto and Margarito ain't as big a deal as his fans like to make out either, same with his win over shot to shit Oscar.
     
  8. gushiken

    gushiken Member

    As long as the Asian kid doesn't quit like a bitch like Duran he has suprassed him,if fact outside of SRL I and a dodgy call vs Barkley what the fuck did Duran achieve north of 135? sweet fuck all.
     
  9. witton_lane

    witton_lane Boxing Fanatics All-Time Great

    Duran is over-rated a bit in P4P terms but he was a legend before he even hit 30, what he did after that just adds to it rather than takes anything away. When Pac has been in the ring with fighters even close to as good as Hagler Leonard and Hearns then he can lay some kind of claim, but he hasn't, so he can't. Durans 1 win against prime Leonard pretty much eclipses anything on Pacs record for me, lasting 15 rounds with Hagler is no mean feat either.
     
  10. Valentino

    Valentino Member

    He is much better than ODLH and RJJ if he was to retired now.

    I will have to wait until the end of his career to check his status when compared with the other two.
     
  11. gushiken

    gushiken Member

    Huge RJJ fan but has he faced that kind of comp has Floyd?
     
  12. TIP

    TIP Member

    What he did do north of 135 well he beat future 140 champ Saoul Mamby, defeated two former welterweight champs and Ray Leonard one of the best ever. Beat Jr. Middle titlest Davey Moore and hung in there with one of the best middles in Hagler for 15 rounds not twelve. Defeated a much younger and bigger Barkley who had beat Hearns twice. And at age 46 defeated former middleweight and future super middleweight belt holder Jorge Castro. Yes he was inconsistent due to poor motivation/ eating and training habits but what he did do is nothing to sneeze at. TIP
     
  13. Valentino

    Valentino Member

    Not to mention that what he did at 135 (and below) ALONE put him alongside Ray Robinson when it comes to accomplishments in a ONE WEIGHT DIVISION.
     
  14. witton_lane

    witton_lane Boxing Fanatics All-Time Great

    RJJ is below Duran for me but definately above DLH and Pac. I don't like talking about Ali in a P4P discussion because he was a career HW, even though he was the best.

    RJJ wasn't even in a close fight until he was 35 despite winning belts from MW right up to HW. The sure fire answer will be that he cherry picked opponents and ducked people....well fuck my old boots, want me to name a list of people Pac could be accused of ducking? Or Floyd? Both have those have been in close fights, one of them has lost a few times too. Neither of whom are at the age Jones was when he had his first close fight....

    The hate is strong for Jones these days, as it was when he was at his peak. I didn't understand it then and I don't understand it now either. He got old and shot around the same age as Leonard did and embarrassed himself in the same way Leonard did, yet history is kind to Leonard for some reason. I like to think in 10 years time the haters will have vanished and Jones will be remembered as what he was - the best fighter out there for 10 years or so.
     
  15. witton_lane

    witton_lane Boxing Fanatics All-Time Great

    Yep....what Duran did past prime was simliar to what Hopkins has done past prime....poor old Roberto did it before the internet was invented though so people don't rhapsodise about him like they do Bernard.
     
  16. Valentino

    Valentino Member


    He did not fight the best. In fact, his level of opposition is one of the worsts in the History of any fighter that fought from 160-HWY.
     
  17. witton_lane

    witton_lane Boxing Fanatics All-Time Great

    Who was the 'best' that he avoided during that period then? Please don't even mention Benn, Eubank or Collins, I'm british remember. Same goes for McClellan. Not to mention DM. Same old names, yet Pac has ducked worse, so has Mayweather, and so has Hopkins yet they all get a pass?
     
  18. Michael Matos

    Michael Matos Member

    Ironically as it pertains to another thread you have Manny up againat two 12 round fighters in De La Hoya and Jones Jr. and two 15 round fighters in Duran and Ali. Ironically again as it pertains to another thread do I give more weight to a flyweight titleist winning a 147 pound title or a 160 lber winning a heavyweight title? Do I let the fact that one fighter got kayoed twice when he was at the end of the road influence me more than the fighter who got kayoed twice when he was eighteen and twenty? I will say this however, at no time during Roy Jones Jr. career was he able to capture the imagination of or electify the Boxing public as much as Manny Pacquiao has. This is probably a topic for another post but Roy Jones Jr. with his skillset, natural ability and gift of gab may be the best worst promoted fighter in the hostory of the sport.
     
  19. manny is a once in a generation type of fighter who really excited the boxing world
    whether he is better than duran, trinidad or dlh, history and time will tell

    too many unknown variables

    He and Ali do have a bit in common, regarding life 'outside' the ring...
     
  20. mikE

    mikE Member

    Good post.
     

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