How great is Bernard Hopkins?

Discussion in 'Boxing News and Discussion' started by Rebel, Dec 22, 2010.

  1. witton_lane

    witton_lane Boxing Fanatics All-Time Great

    Jones wasn't shot overnight, it was obvious to anyone that watching him his entire career that there was a level of decline for a few years before the Tarver loss. Merkerson even commented on it himself before the Woods and Ruiz fights. The first Tarver fight was a warning but Jones being Jones he took the rematch instead of just retiring and look what happened. He most certainly didn't become a journeyman though as the Lacy and Trinidad wins proved. He could still do some of the things that made him great in the first place but it was obvious he was only half the fighter he once was.

    Which brings us onto Ali....what did he do once his prime talent was significantly faded? I know it's sacriledge to point it out but from 1975 onwards he looked like shit against pretty much every fighter he fought. Flashes of greatness? I'd like to see examples of that, with the exception of the fight against a very limited Shavers Ali was a shadow after the Manila fight and was very carefully matched indeed. You won't find a bigger Ali fan than me but I don't judge him on his past prime years, I judge him on the very best version, the unbeatable one, and that's how I remember Jones too. Just because Hopkins aged better doesn't make him the better fighter, prime v prime he would lose to Roy Jones Jr every day of the week and twice on Sunday, and that's why it's idiotic to rate him higher. Had they never met close to prime it'd be an argument, but they actually did meet and no excuses in the world can make me forget the ownage that took place. Jones is the better man, end of discussion.
     
  2. Jack1000

    Jack1000 Boxing Fanatic

    Agree with Rebel that his talents were the best in boxing since Leonard. And I actually LOVED Jones work as an HBO commentator!

    I also agree with Rebel on his above points. One exception is that I would probably not put Jones at Journeymen status since the Tarver loss. However,that KO certainly destroyed the myth that Roy was this unbeatable invincible Superman, which the media and public believed. Faded, shot, and no-hoper opposition, made Roy look better than he was by extended his reign.

    Jack
     
  3. davemurphy

    davemurphy Member

    Hmmm, my first disagreement with Jack.....well, it was bound to happen sometime :) I admit that I was a big fan of Jones and might be a tad biased, but I don't think what happened to him was anything that doesn't happen to a fighter who's skills are totally the result of speed and then suddenly doesn't have it anymore. When he went up to HW, the speed didn't come back to him when the weight dropped back down, and we were left with a guy who'd never been forced to bother with using his Jab or ever had his chin subjected to a great deal of punishment, and now having to do both. In boxing we've seen that Speed Kills, but when you've relied on it and then don't have it anymore, it sure can be a Bitch :)

    As for the Roy-Bernard argument, well their styles simply made for different careers. BHOP's skills allowed for a much longer career, it wasn't as meteoric and he languished for a lot of those years was kind of in Roy's shadow a bit, but in the end the cerebral nature of his game, and the better fundamentals, got him to the same place and even though I'm an RJJ Fan, I have to admit that he probably deserves to have a slight edge in terms of legacy.

    As far as his days as an HBO announcer, I'm glad to see him getting some work again. I always thought he was the best analyst they ever had, the problem was that when his diminishing INSIDE THE RING accomplishments weren't enough to satiate his massive ego, mostly do to his own fault for taking on subpar competition (and HBO's for paying him well to do so) then Roy started using the Mic to sooth his massive Ego. He was great when he was simply calling action in the Ring and pointing stuff out, but was super annoying when he'd start talking about himself in the Third Person. Now that he's been humbled inside the Ring repeatedly, I think it actually made him a much better announcer, he's returned to the early days where he left himself out of the discussion,
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2011
  4. davemurphy

    davemurphy Member

    Rebel, I think your getting confused a bit with Hagler, who was the one that dusted Roy Sr. Either that or I'm reading it wrong. Btw, that's an excellent Bar Bet, get someone who knows something about Boxing but doesn't know as much as they think they do, argue emphatically that Marvin Hagler beat Roy Jones and make them think YOU don't know what YOUR talking about............then point them to BoxRec and 6/10/77 Marvin Hagler TKO 3 Roy Jones and collect your money :lol:
     
  5. The Hitman

    The Hitman Hitman

    because george didn't take punishment in the ring for those ten years. hopkins was in the ring competing, making weight, sparring, taking punishment and STILL has shown better longevity than Foreman.
     
  6. TIP

    TIP Member

    Excellent post Dave. TIP
     
  7. davemurphy

    davemurphy Member

    Thanks, Tip. I'm hoping that Jones the Announcer will leave Jones the Fighter to rest. I really do like him behind the Mic....and least when he's not talking about "Roy" in the third person.
     
  8. Jack1000

    Jack1000 Boxing Fanatic

    Me too Dave!

    Jack
     
  9. Rebel

    Rebel Admin

    Dave, I was referring to Tarver as "Roy's Father." :haha:
     
  10. davemurphy

    davemurphy Member

    LOL, okay I got ya, as in "who's your Daddy?". Bare with me as I try to get used to everyone's sense of humor here :coolio:
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2011

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