How great is Bernard Hopkins?

Discussion in 'Boxing News and Discussion' started by Rebel, Dec 22, 2010.

  1. Rebel

    Rebel Admin

    Throughout his career, Hopkins has been one of those "love em or hate em" type fighters. But there's no denying the wily veteran is one of the best boxers of all-time. He holds the most middleweight defenses of all-time and he's proven to be a world class light heavyweight while way past his prime. A few days ago he nearly became the oldest fighter to hold a legit world title.

    How great is Bernard Hopkins?

    Top 10?

    Top 20?

    Somewhere between 20-40?

    50-100?
     
  2. witton_lane

    witton_lane Boxing Fanatics All-Time Great

    Comparing him to his peers....not as great as Jones, greater than Toney.

    I like the guy but for all his MW defences who did he actually beat that was great themselves? Pretty much all his good wins at that weight were against guys that didn't belong at the weight in the first place.

    Of course you can level the same accusation against Hagler but the quality is different, Hagler is above Hops for me even though he stuck to the same weight, he was just on another level and I'd pick him to beat Hopkins every time.
     
  3. Valentino

    Valentino Member

    Comparing to his contemporaries...only Pacquiao is greater than him...IMO.
     
  4. Rebel

    Rebel Admin

    A lot of greats whom old timers revere didn't defeat other greats during their all-time runs in certain weight classes. Hopkins thoroughly dominated middleweight for a long stretch and let's not forget he was the first man to thoroughly defeat Trinidad who at the time was on quite a run himself.

    Past his prime, he easily defeated the man that ended the Myth of Roy Jones, and also defeated Jones in the rematch.

    RJJ was extremely talented during his prime but he lacked the desire to challenge himself. He has not even had one great performance since the Tarver KO loss. Hopkins continues to produce great performances every couple of years (Pavlik, Tarver, Pascal). In my view, he passed RJJ many years ago.

    IMO, a case can be made that Hopkins is greater than Pacquiao and Mayweather.
     
  5. witton_lane

    witton_lane Boxing Fanatics All-Time Great

    Seriously reaching there dude, seriously reaching. Hopkins lost in his prime to Jones and lost badly, so did Toney.

    The rematch, you really count that? Jones aged badly, Hopkins aged well, so what? In their absolute primes Jones was the better fighter, it's that simple. To rank Hopkins above a guy that defeated him so easily.....it just has to be hate.

    I'd be interested where you rank Leonard too, he had no convincing performances after he lost to Norris. Same bar you're judging Jones by, after all.
     
  6. Joe King

    Joe King Member

    Greater than Jones,Pacquiao and Mayweather??? LMAO!!! The Tarver win was impressive and so was the Pavlik win but they are seriously overrated.

    Your JMM being the greatest Mexican fighter argument had more valid points and there were none there either.
     
  7. Valentino

    Valentino Member

    Greater than RJJ (who was vastly overrated and when finally faced challenges...he lost) and greater than Mayweather that is fighting one fight per year.

    Greatness is about accomplishments and longevity...Hopkins has both.

    Note: Jones fought a very green Hopkins the first time around. The second time around he fought a much older and battle tested Hopkins. Hopkins schooled Jones daddy too.
     
  8. Valentino

    Valentino Member

    He is not greater than Pac. Pac was a champ in 4 of the 8 original weight classes. And could have been in 5 if not because he skipped Battamweight. No other fighter has accomplished that.

    I am not a Hopkins fan and I never liked him as a person or fighter. But he is in my book only second to Pac.
     
  9. Black Gatti

    Black Gatti Member

    haha ... chuurch
     
  10. I've never been a fan of Hopkins and not just because he is a racist.

    He lost to Taylor twice, lost to a prime RJJ and a declining Calzaghe. Most of his title defences were against bums and his style was never the most exciting to watch.

    Arguably his best wins were against ODLH and Trinidad who were by far the smaller men and boy did it show. He won a UD against a over the hill RJJ who got KTFO by green in RD1 in the same year.

    He will be remembered as a great boxer, but definately should not be put in the same league as Hagler, Hearns, Ali etc.
     
  11. gushiken

    gushiken Member

    The fact that he wanted no part of fighting Roy when it mattered is how I judge him and just like Toney it ate away at him.
     
  12. The Hitman

    The Hitman Hitman

    Wow. It's a good question. I haven't read the threads but is the consensus here that Hopkins deserved the decision vs. Pascal? I thought he won the fight clearly, but close with the KD's (both were legitimate too imo).

    If he isn't in the top 20 I think he is certainly in the 21-30 range. I think he has surpassed Jones as well. His overall career overshadows the things that Jones has done imo, and they never fought in their primes. They fought when Jones was in a more advanced state of his career early and Hopkins was too green, then they fought when Hopkins was in a more advanced state of his career and Jones was too over the hill. One guy peaked earlier, one guy peaked later.

    What I am curious to know tho, does this whole business elevate Calzaghe at all?
     
  13. Rebel

    Rebel Admin

    Problem is that Pac was stopped twice at flyweight, didn't defeat JMM at featherweight, and he didn't defeat the real lightweight champ (David Diaz doesn't count as he was arguably the weakest titlist at lightweight at the time) at the time. Pac has been impressive at welterweight. However, he's yet to defeat the lineal champion in that weight class, Floyd Mayweather Jr.

    He's had a fine career but let's not pretend he was Henry Armstrong. Armstrong was clearly the man in each weight class he won titles at.
     
  14. Rebel

    Rebel Admin

    The fact that RJJ wanted no part of any challenge from green Hopkins to John Ruiz doesn't hurt him either?
     
  15. Valentino

    Valentino Member

    He beat Barrera (who was the man that defeated the man - Hammed) at Featherweight. And he was a champ at Flyweight and now at Welterweight. That is more than impressive, IMO.
     
  16. Valentino

    Valentino Member

    I have serious problems with anyone that denies Hopkins place in History.
     
  17. Joe King

    Joe King Member

    Think about who Hopkins has beaten!!! Tarver (arguably shot) Pavlik (one dimensional), Wright(a historical non factor), and arguably Jean Pascal (another historical non factor). The Jones Jr rematch was a horrible matchup since Jones literally was coming off of a 1st round KO LOSS. The guys he has beaten has very little on their resumes and when you factor in undersized Tito and DLH, the resume isn't that great.

    Hopkins was one of my favorites for a long time but that long stand at middleweight and fighting guys like Allen 3 times doesn't help.

    Hopkins started his career at 175 as well, so let's not act like he's a P4P dominator. He could have fought Roy YEARS ago and Roy literally ran him off. Jones beat Tarver as well.
     
  18. TIP

    TIP Member

    Pac has been impressive at welterweight. However, he's yet to defeat the lineal champion in that weight class, Floyd Mayweather Jr.

    But he did defeat Cotto and Margarito the two top guys at 147 that PBF didn't fight and could have. TIP
     
  19. The Hitman

    The Hitman Hitman

    I hate to have to utter this cliche, but come on Joe, you can pick apart anyone's resumes... no one is ever satisfied, even when Hopkins cleaned out his division, nearly broke the record for title defenses (for any weight class), beat top echelon P4P fighters, conquered lineal champions, bested fighters who had beaten the fighters that defeated him, and was never dominated once he came into his own as a fighter.

    I don't want to get into all the fighters you mention - but Milk Dud wasn't shot that is a hollow, straw-grasping argument imo. Winky Wright I'll always agree is a worthless fighter in many many respects, but he was a top fighter who deserves some serious weight if you have a win over him on your ledger. Trinidad was big enough to destroy Joppy and Cherifi - who had beaten Keith Holmes - all legitimate middleweights..... that's a great win too, and Hopkins didn't beat him because he was some monster of a middleweight in terms of size, he b eat him with wits, skills and tactics. DLH... i totally agree that win carries almost no significance whatsoever.

    I can't remember all the details of the Jones-Hopkins saga... I do remember one negotiation breaking down because Jones insisted on a rubber match should he lose the rematch. real confident fighter there. Then there was the whole "60-40 I kicks yo ass" nonsense. Both guys seem to be at fault for not making it happen.... rank Jones ahead of Hopkins if you want, they both deserve to be very high on any all time great list.
     
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2010
  20. Valentino

    Valentino Member

    RJJ extremely overrated. Of the good fighters during their time, he is the only one that managed to avoid the MOST top fighters in the weight divisions he fought. Pretty pathetic and a disgrace to the sport, I might add. Thankfully, Hopkins brought honor to the sport, the Nation and black community.

    If I was black, I would have been embarrassed having RJJ as my representative.
     

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