(HBO PPV) - Mayweather vs. Ortiz, Alvarez vs. Gomez, Morales vs. Cano (September 17)

Discussion in 'Boxing News and Discussion' started by Rebel, Sep 12, 2011.

  1. Jack1000

    Jack1000 Boxing Fanatic


    The worst half-assed ref job after the point was taken away. since Walcott in Ali-Liston II. (Well one of the worst.) The issue being talking to the timekeeper. What's interesting is before that incident, Cortez was actually not intrusive and letting the fighters fight. He changed to shit in the blink of an eye by talking to the timekeeper AFTER the action had started, AND he took his eyes of the fighters. That's a cardinal sin of any boxing referee.

    In contrast, Walcott talked to the timekeeper AFTER Liston was out. But the loss of referee focus adds to the controversy in both fights.

    So many people were like WTF was Cortez doing between the point deduction and "cheap shot", but legal KO by Mayweather?

  2. Jack1000

    Jack1000 Boxing Fanatic


  3. Michael Matos

    Michael Matos Member

    In all fairnes to Walcott he wasn't exactly a full time referee either.
  4. Jack1000

    Jack1000 Boxing Fanatic

    Sure, agree about Walcott's ref inexperience. But no excuse for "fair but firm." to show that kind of indecisiveness.

    Mike, is there anything in commission rules that requires a touching of the gloves before the first round bell, (after ref instructions) or before the final round? Or is it just done out of boxing tradition as a show of mutual respect to each other?

    What would they do if fighters just refuse to touch gloves?

  5. Michael Matos

    Michael Matos Member

    The habit of touching goves before the final round goes back a long way, back to the days when there were no PA systems and the touching of gloves let the crowd know it wa the last round. The touching of gloves before a round starts is another old habit that dates back to sparring where it was always customary for the sparring partner to touch gloves with his "boss" because you never want to clock your boss when he's not ready, that got you fired real quick. Hector Camcho got a point taken away for not touching gloves before the final round in one of his fights with Greg Haugen. I think it was Padilla who docked him.
  6. Jack1000

    Jack1000 Boxing Fanatic

    Thanks Mike.

  7. Mark G

    Mark G Member

    I was picking Mayweather BEFORE the Ortiz fight but actually now have my doubts. I thought Mayweather actually looked slower in the Ortiz fight than he had in the past. Against Pacquiao, he would utilize a counter punching strategy. Watch the Mosley Pacquiao fight and observe that although Pacquiao dominated the fight, he had difficulty coming in and getting off a significant amount of punches because even a shaken and rattled Mosley, was trying to time him as he came in and it altered his fight plan.

    Mayweather is 10X better at timing people as they come in. Slipping in his straight right and just the right moment has become his speciality. I would pick him over Pacquiao, sadly, since I want him to get beat.

    But I thought his stock went down a little in the Ortiz fight.
  8. TysonFan

    TysonFan Sensei

    That's exactly how it happened.
  9. O-Dogg33

    O-Dogg33 El Mero Mero

    I agree great assessment. Mayweather's timing is what makes him great. He's slowing down and actually getting more agressive which is great for the fans. He still don't hit hard for welterweight that's why he's able to land all these great shots and not take his guys out, well unless they're standing there like jackasses with their hands by their sides. If he were to open up a little more and throw more combinations he could probably get more stoppages due to his sick accuracy.

    But on the flip side if he is getting a hit a little more. If he gets hit with a few combinations instead of just one punch at a time who knows how he'll react. That's where he could be most vulnerable. If pacquiao hits him with a combination he doesn't' see coming.
  10. Jack1000

    Jack1000 Boxing Fanatic

    I didn't see the whole PPV, but my observations on the fights that I have been watching on HBO On Demand:

    1.) A + to HBO for showing the Morales-Cano fight, which was not only the best fight on the night, but turned out better than people expected. Good that the undercard is being shown on HBO OD.

    2.) Liked the bonus footage with the commission director and back stage conversation. A + there.

    3.) A Big - for using post-fight production camera reaction shots that you could tell were different from the live PPV call feed. I found them to be a major distraction. Going to audience members during the fight for split second reactions, took away from the action. Only use the post-fight camera work, when the fight and interviews are over, if you use them at all, or just for pre-fight comments. Spectators looked like they were seeing film footage when they did this.

  11. O-Dogg33

    O-Dogg33 El Mero Mero

    Keith Kizer is a douche bag I actually mis Marc Ratner.
  12. Jack1000

    Jack1000 Boxing Fanatic

    Can someone help me with the time of the KO in Mayweather-Ortiz?

    HBO's clock shows 9 seconds left when Cortez calls time for the point deduction. For him to resume the action would probably be one or two seconds off of clock time, so that brings HBO's clock down to 7 seconds. When Cortez counts "1O", how can you get 2:59 out of that knockout? It would be somewhere between 3:01-3:03.

    You can't end the round when counting over a downed fighter from a legal punch.

    This may raise the debate of bringing back the "Saved by the Bell Rule."


    PS. I remember when HBO showed the replay of Douglas-Tyson and the 8th round controversy with Tyson scoring a knockdown and instances where the timekeeper and the ref are not always synchronized. They showed a couple other fights with the example too. I don't think HBO's clock timer is the same as the commission's timer either.
  13. Michael Matos

    Michael Matos Member

    "Further proof that Cortez lost his place. The time of the knockout was 2:59 of the round."

    I posted that a week ago. Nobody bit. You're right. If the time of the knockout was declared at 2:59 then that tells me that Cortez nevver said time in. "Time In" isn't for the benefit of the fghters it's too notify the timekeeper to restart the round time. Now that raises another question, you can't tell the fighters "Lets go" and then go to the Timekeeper. It don't work like that they are two distinct instructions which should immediately follow each other. "Time In"-"Box".
  14. Jack1000

    Jack1000 Boxing Fanatic

    Thank you Mike!

  15. davemurphy

    davemurphy Member

    At this point it's becoming increasingly difficult to follow all of Clueless Joe's mistakes, this isn't baseball or football where screwing something up can cost a couple runs or a touchdown, these men put their lives on the line.......and I don't give a shit how legendary Joe Cortez is, or how good of a Ref he USED to be, if he doesn't want to quit then they need to do whatever they have to do to force him out. Too much at stake to see this continue to go on....
  16. zboxz

    zboxz Member

    it is clear to me that action was resumed. Mayweather hit him in live action no matter how unsportsmanlike it was. There is NO rule than says you must not punch if your opponent is trying to hug or kiss you.
  17. Mazarup

    Mazarup Member

    Mayweather is a no class bitch. The end.
  18. hazza

    hazza Member

    ok you guys, i know i'm a slow west australian but i only just watched this fight. imo mayweather pussed it. how can you king hit someone and call that a legit win. most people could bloody do that to someone without any training lol. are we all world champs now? lol @ floyd mayweather.

    i've got a question though about touching gloves. when a fight enters the 12th, the ref says touch em up. does that now mean people can take a free shot at that moment? should they remove this tradition in light of the cheat move from mayweather? i've seen plenty of instances where fighters could have taken a free hit but didn't. is this now going to open up a can of worms in boxing?
  19. Rabid Kimba

    Rabid Kimba Member

    Oh Jesus...not again...

    :slaphead: :slaphead: :slaphead:

    Western Australia must be located on the bottom of one of those mile-deep Martian canyons...

    :lol: :lol: :lol:
  20. hazza

    hazza Member

    listen kimba, some of us have actually got jobs to go to. not sit around looking at superhero porn all day haha

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