:haha::haha::haha: Love the way Jones is 'barely' and Hopkins is 'arguably', depends on who's doing the arguing I guess. You do remember that Jones was a natural MW don't you, who moved up because there was basically no-one else to beat and he wanted to get belts at other weights? Any other fighter would be applauded for that shit like Pac is, but no, Jones gets hated for it, it's astounding. Hopkins holds victories over fighters that knocked out shot Jones yes, I didn't realise that was a criteria for greatness though...I guess everyone that beat Trevor Berbick was great by proxy then seeing as he beat shot to shit Ali. Same goes for Brian Neilsen who beat Holmes :haha: The longevity doesn't end the discussion, not by a long shot. Jones beat Hopkins easily when they were both close to prime, Hopkins stayed at 160 and fed off less than stellar competition, Jones moved up to fight guys that were just as bad but were naturally bigger than him. Hopkins had plenty of chances to move up to avenge that defeat but refused to do so until it was utterly meaningless. Had Jones decided to stay at 160 then Hopkins wouldn't even be a footnote at 160 and you know it.